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Roman, Lay Foundations - Part 1

There is a myth or a so called saying that the sackings over the years has led Chelsea to rack up more trophies than Manchester United during Abramovich's era. In other words, rotating the managerial hot seat have left us winning trophies. The pundits and fans alike believe this and they cite Chelsea, Bayern Munich and Real Madrid as examples. However, I beg to seriously differ from this school of thought and this season and last season is proving such myths to be wrong.

I will attribute our success over the years to the foundations laid by Ranieri and Jose Mourinho whom essentially built the core of this team. That core being Cech, Makalele, Terry, Cole, Lampard, Drogba, and lately, Ivanovic and Mikel (starting DM in both Carlo Ancelotti and RDM's trophy winning year no matter how sick it makes some fans feel). A significant portion, if not, 90% of the players were recruited under the guidance of 2 managers with significant coaching experience and lasted over a season or more at Chelsea - Claudio Ranieri and Jose Mourinho. Not only were a core built, but a tactical system was employed over the years that made us successful.

There is saying in the Bible as follows:

'They are like a person building a house, who dug a deep hole to lay the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the floodwaters pushed against that house but couldn't shake it, because it had been founded on the rock.'

Regardless of whatever manager hired, Chelsea was successful in terms of winning trophies and securing a top 4 position because a solid foundation had been built. However, that foundation had been laid by competent architects - coaches with the managerial experience and football knowledge of recruiting core players under a period of STABILITY. Any tinkering with that foundation led to disappointing results and eventually sackings of managers e.g. Scolari and AVB. The managers who ended up resorting to the regular starting XI endured success and in some cases trophies.

Champions League success which is the yard stick any Chelsea manager is measured with was secured by RDM and almost tasted by Avram Grant. These managers are not tactically astute, geniuses or whatever you want to call it, but the foundation was strong enough to see them through to winning it and almost winning it. An important ingredient was their ability to motivate the players and make them believe in themselves. You may call it luck or whatever, but I believe the core of the players were much more responsible for winning it than the coaches hired and fired like the pundits and Chelsea fans resort to.

The core of a team is supposed to last about 5 to 6 seasons and in some cases 8 seasons. The first core have served their purpose and on their way out of Chelsea with Drogba being the first to leave with Cole and Lampard following this summer. Where there is a problem is in the recruitment of the 2nd core (or laying of another foundation) and this is where the sackings and hirings like Zara changes clothes according to seasons has led me to believe changing the managerial hot seat isn't responsible for the success but the foundation laid.

When Mourinho and Claudio were recruiting players, they was a specific purpose and tactical system in mind that the next manager could just change or add things and follow up on the system the previous manager was trying to implement. In that case, it was almost irrelevant what manager we have at the top. However, this recruitment only came with the possibility of the manager knowing some sort of stability was guaranteed.

Since Mourinho has been sacked, we don't even know who exactly recruits our players. It is Piet De Visser today, Emenalo tomorrow, our new coach today, Gourlay next week and Pini Zahavi next year. No one bothers to ask how this player will be utilized within the new coach's system. In addition to that, the new coaches are denied whatever players they request hence their failures. Latest casualties being AVB and RDM.

Take our current team for example. Which coach actually recruited Ramires, Mata, Oscar, Hazard, and Torres? I didn't say under which coach were they recruited, but which coach recruited them? AVB wanted Willian, Falcao and Moutinho. RDM wanted Falcao and Moses. Of that 5, we only got Moses. Herein lies in the problem.

Most coaches choose to either control possession or control the space. The coaches that are able to control both are superb teams and almost unbeatable - Barcelona, Dortmund in their double winning season, and Juventus. This current Chelsea team is neither because we are broken team with players who fit one or the either system, but not both. In Rafa's press conference, he said the following:

'The kind of players we have need to be in possession because they cannot compete physically with strong opponents like West Ham. The balance needs to be better.'

There is a saying that most games are lost in the midfield. How are we a possession team and we don't possess central midfielders who do the basic things of a possession team - KEEP POSSESSION.

Mikel and Ramires can't keep possession enough. Hazard, Mata and Oscar do not have the physical attributes or the mindset to close spaces against opposition and has led to a broken team, hence our poor run. Including Lampard, Terry in the starting lineup or hiring Pep doesn't cure this issue.

The game against West Ham was reminiscent of Juventus, Shakthar, Atletico Madrid, and West Brom. As it turned out, Chelsea were fine in the first half because West Ham WERE SO BAD not because we were excellent. Sam Allardyce made JUST ONE CHANGE - Introduced Diame who did a Marschisio and Fernandinho on our central midfielders. RDM was called an imbecile since he wasn't able to deal with such intensive central midfielders.

So I ask another question - how come the allegedly tactically astute Rafa Benitez couldn't deal with it? This is where clamours for Pep drives me nuts because they are weaknesses in the squad you can't correct no matter how tactically astute you are. This is one of the examples. One could have argued he should switch to a 4-3-3 with Oscar, Ramires and Mikel in the middle to do the pressing and contain Diame. However, we still don't know how to press intelligently and lack the numbers in central midfield to deploy a 4-3-3.

Ray Wilkins said:

'He is running out of options. If #Guardiola was to come in and got sacked, where do you go?'

I agree and disagree with this statement. Roman has run out of options for hiring established and celebrated coaches. However, he hasn't ran out of coaching options. The Italians and Spanish are churning out coaches as much as they are churning out young upcoming players. However, this isn't the route he will go. And unfortunately for him, he has got to start all over again and regardless of what happens, Pep Guardiola or Mourinho or the next coach cannot get sacked in less than a year.

We are in a period of rebuilding with no particular identity and we must allow the next coach rebuild this team with an identified tactical system in mind aka laying the important foundation that will last us for another 5-6 seasons and in some cases, 8 seasons. The gulf between Chelsea and the PL title has remained high single digits to double digits for the past 2 seasons and that appears to be the case this season. It is high time management and the board allow competent Coaches rebuild this team as they see fit.

You could argue that other clubs have top management executing the player transfers to fit the club's philosophy. You can point towards Barcelona, AC Milan, and Bayern Munich as examples. However, those clubs do not have a former Manchester United Executive, an old lawyer and a former U-15 girl's coach handling player transfer decisions. What do these 3 know about a football philosophy?

I will continue with a lay a foundation series Part 2 focusing on Michael Emenalo, Bruce Buck and Ron Gourlay and why Chelsea fans have to turn some of that angst from Benitez to Bruce and Ron Gourlay.





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The Journalist

Writer: KAKUfrank Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Monday December 3 2012

Time: 4:51PM

Your Comments

...I will attribute our success over the years to the foundations laid by Ranieri and Jose Mourinho whom essentially built the core of this team....some1 remind me, with who's money was this 'foundation' lain??
@Mq
...here is a myth or a so called saying that the sackings over the years has led Chelsea to rack up more trophies than Manchester United during Abramovich's era....the proof is in the numbers, which are undeniable. While ManUre has won 10 Cups to our 9, 1 of those Cups ManUre won came from them beating us on penalties in the Champs League final
@Mq
Otherwise a very insightful article ;)
@Mq
@Mq Terry and Lampard the 2 most important players under Abramovich era came before him.
Lakupiippu
I agree totally, I have been saying this for months. Roman was fortunate when he bought the club, as Ranieri had the ability to know what players were required. The problem was, he tinkered so much that he couldn`t make it work. Jose did that and by adding a few extra powerful additions in the right places, we became the team that accumulated more points in a single season and conceding less goals than any other team ever in the top flight and walked to back to back titles. At that stage a little more creativity was the only missing ingredient, but it never came to pass, Roman tightened the purse strings and Jose was sacked. The truth is, that we have been getting less and less professional as each season goes by, as Jose`s team was slowly diluted. But now it is crunch time, if Roman honestly believes that the unqualified individuals that surround him, are going to supply a similar blueprint for the future, I`m afraid that it is going to end in tears. Prepare yourselves for 11 cherry picked individuals, that will not be able to perform as a team. The writing is on the wall, sadly I can`t see anything that is going to change that in the immediate future. Unless Roman gets assistance from someone with football experience, who knows how to construct a team, someone who can understand the value of players that are over 30 and what they add to the squad, as well as being not frightened in not being just be another one of Romans puppets. Gus Hiddink should be installed as Technical Director immediately, who would be a step in the right direction and a stabilising choice.
Blueheart9
I wouldn't call them the most important LAKU but I get your point :)
@Mq
Looking forward to the next article.Great read.
bluekid
Good stuff, KAKU. @Mq...yes it WAS Roman who 'laid' the foundations with his money...but he has been putting in some rotten materials and pulling out bricks/blocks out of that foundation, creating a very shaky structure. :()
Squig
Money is NOT an issue. The Arabs and Qataris are spending money like it doesn't exist. The ability to deploy those funds are more important than money itself. If throwing money was the case, how come Roman hasn't been able to assemble a great team without coaches who know the business? How many times have Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Man U, and co bought expensive flops? Roman has blown close 100mm pounds on flops. So again, money IS NOT the ISSUE.
KAKUfrank
@Mq, if I am correct, the players who were bought by Jose and Ranieri were the ones who took us to the penalty shoot outs? You think Avram Grant was the one who orchestrated it? Really? Avram Grant who relegated Portsmouth and West Ham back to back.
KAKUfrank
something i've always argued... would grant have been a hero had jt not slipped and scored that penalty. he prob would have been. but of course we all know he went on to prove beyond all doubt at west ham and portsmouth that he was one of the worst managers out there. thin line!
trueblue44
@KAKUfrank nice article. This foundations won't have been possible without Roman. The Arabs are not as passionate as Roman. With all talents Man City got and hasn't be able to get them out of CL group stage once and still they allowed Mancini to stay @ the job shows they are happy with their set targets.Arsenal are happy with a top finish. Chelsea board have the rights to set a higher, ambitious targets.
jollyheart Torres
@trueblue u just confirmed RDM was very lucky to have gotten the Chelsea job and the CL victory doesn't make him a super manager . So why all the tears about RDM been sacked?
jollyheart Torres
Romans money has transformed the club that is a fact.we must now which is the tough bit get him to gather some football men round him ,someone mentioned hiddink which is good or we could have got harry redknapp in , but we definately need a good director of football.as for a manager what about martinez any opinions?
herefordchelsea
Well said kaku,STABILITY is important in any given organization.
blue5
Great read Kaku, Roman, Buck and Gourlay are all at fault here equally! Roman for playing football manager with cfc, and Buck/ Gourlay for being yes man! That is what i was trying to say in my article a few weeks back, we aren't building for the future but are just doing short term solutions to work NOW, which aren't working at all! Having Pep or Jose won't solve anything if Roman will sign who he wants when he wants! JM left because of the Sheva debacle! and Pep surely won't come in either if Roman will control the signings!!! Essentially that is exactly why 'Txiki' Begiristain (this spelling omfg lol) didn't come to cfc but instead went to city were he knows he can build a great club over time with funds backing him!!! CFC are a dysfunctional and a broken club at board level, and Roman isn't helping with his decisions!!! The sooner we start running like a normal club, the better it will be for everyone!
Tiraspol
Great article and i agree with what you have written. Seriously it is time RA gets back to basics and admit he got it wrong these past few years. The squad is so unbalanced and has no direction. One minute the players think they are now adopting a new style of play then out of nowhere the manager gets sacked and we bring in a manager whose philosophy is to be compact and disciplined! the players looked lost and i think RA and the board are confused in what they are doing. At the moment it is a horrible mess and for now the club and fans need to pull together to achieve top 4 finish. Bring in Guus as technical director with Emanalo head of scouting and establish what direction the club want to go in and find a ideal manager who understands the philosophy. More importantly RA needs to take a back seat and let things happen.
MrDax
Nice article @kaku,i really enjoyed the read but i think that our club is an anormally of a club succesful via instability
Ken4CFC
Can Roman stop himself from being the Puppet Master?
ddrogba
Spot on can't argue with the points raised its the reason we've had so many square pegs in round holes for the past 3 years because they are not letting real football people do the running of the club in terms of player recruitment i.e AVB knew nothing about KDB or Lukaku. You feel during transfers we just buy the next shiniest thing as opposed to assessing whether the player fits in with the current system.
Anarchy
Looking back to Frank Arnesens Legacy I have actually come to realise he did a lot better than a lot realise. The cuurent success we are enjoying in our youth ranks is all down to the foundations he laid restructuring our academy and the way youngsters are developed. We are now producing technically gifted players who are all mostly English sprinkled with a few foreign gems. The guy basically took our ordinary Academy and had us now competing with some of the better established academies in the space of 5 years but with Roman bieng Roman expects us to be churning out a Messi every year without managerial stability in the first team.
Anarchy
http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/stars-making-why-frank-arnesen-deserves-credit-exciting-chelsea-superkids-3110341
Anarchy
Very well written and insightful stuff KAKU..this is a refrain that you and i agree on..it is the players..well picked and deployed who will win anything. The success we have had over the last 8-9 yrs as you rightly indicated in heavily dependent on the team, spine and Core that Ranieri and Jose put together. To replicate anything close to that Golden generation Roman will need the help of footballing minds..either in a DOF and/or coaching position and we have neither right now. I just hope Roman gets religion and sees this the way you have articulated here..simply throwing money blindly at this and continuing the dancing chairs game we call our managerial carousel will not get us anywhere ...once the final remnants of that initial core finally exit the stage things may get downright ugly for Chelsea FC if as you have said the "right foundations" dont get laid right away...i can only hope and pray.
GabeU
@jollyheart Torres, the Arabs may not be as passionate as Roman, but they do know how a club is run. After all, they have an FA Cup and an EPL to show for it and are in the hunt for the EPL this season as well. You see it is a bit ridiculous firing Mancini after he won the EPL less than 6 months ago and is currently 3 points behind Man U with 23 games to go. You mention they can't make it out of their group. However they were placed there with Real Madrid, Dortmund and Ajax. If Chelsea after spending 50mm on Torres, 25mm on Luiz, 30mm on Hazard, 25mm on Mata, and 20mm on Oscar depend on the saving grace of the lord to make it out of our own group with Shakthar and Juventus, who are we to complain about City's plights? Look at Juve and Shakthar, how many players were bought for 25mm and over by those teams?? But they have an identity; a system which allows them to dominate their respective leagues. We on the other hand depend on the individual creativity of players which can be easily suffocated by a credible opposition coach as Shakthar, Juventus, Atletico, West Ham, West Brom, and Man U have exploited. The teams that have given us problems have ranged from mid-table teams to competent teams. Roman and Emenalo have bought a whole bunch of toys and are spending millions and months looking for puppet to make their toys work. When they should have sat down with someone credible to discuss first and then put their players together. We keep discussing about the imminent arrival of Pep, but how many players in this squad are even Pep type players and what will Roman do after spending 15mm pounds a year in salary to recruit him? Let him dismantle his squad and build in his own image?
KAKUfrank
Our main problem has really been highlighted here, we need a football brain at the helm of affairs like we had Peter Kenyon then who drafted the blue print of our identity with Raineri and Mourinho, those are sound football minds that knows how a football club is been run. What people need to realise is that even with money you still need knowledgeable people to help you run your business outlay otherwise your money will not nbe able to solve the problem that will be encountered at a later date. Thank you RA for the money but we need to redraft a blue print for our intended identity which can only be achieved with managerial stability. (But don't you try and keep Rafa because he is definitely not the way forward.
sojofjand
*will not be able*
sojofjand
Kakufrank - very well said...thank you...
lamarochs
Brilliant article! Certainly not what we have been accustomed to lately! Like I always say, Chelsea fans do not realize the quality of the squad we had and I shudder when a lot of that talent is taken for granted. WE assembled a team of proven winners; Ricky, Gallas, and JT and still add Makelele and Essien? You have to go back to the Milan team to ever get that kind of defense! What most people ignore is that even Torres was never as talented as Nico....and we managed to get the world's best CM in Ballack. JT was not better than Alex, Ricky and Gallas but he is miles better than what we have now. So are we any better off? Ryan is not even a shadow of ACole. But excellent article!
OCBlues
Is it true that if we score 7 tomorrow and Shaktar-Juve draw..we can still go through?
gankrish
@KAKUfrank like i said in my past comments RA and his clowns will never learn until a catastrophic failure happened. I actually thought last season we are going to pay the price but RDM stabilished the ship and won 2 trophies. But this season in my mind i really really hope that we win nothing other than a top 4 place. Then only these clowns will appoint a manager and some good football people to run the club and leave them alone to do their jobs with out the famous gifts(FT etc) from RA. I want us to fail this season. I know its painful i know lot of short term thinking fans will call me names but this seasons failure means some solid foundations for the next 5 to 10 yrs then i am happy to take this failure. RA and his clowns must leave the next manager alone and let him make the footballing decisions. Who to sign who to sell.
BlueAndWhiteArmy
...Money is NOT an issue...where would we be without it KAKU??
@Mq
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Managers didn't do their bit but they were vastly enabled by Romans loot, without it we'd never have afforded the players to whom this "foundation" is alluded too. Don't forget the INCREDIBLE salaries and bonuses these players were on, so they were just as motivated financially as otherwise, which is a HUGE testament to what Roman has done. Yes he's had his faults, we all do, and the bigger the benefits the bigger the faults too, never forget that
@Mq
....how many times have Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Man U, and co bought expensive flops? Roman has blown close 100mm pounds on flops.Roman has blown close 100mm pounds on flops... Kaka (Madrid) already contributes 60% to that on his own, add Robinho and you have 80% of that on 2 players already, and pity I don't analyze Madrid to name others. Munich has outspent Dortmund 3 times over in the past 4 years and yet they won pretty much the same, would you not say those are "flops" somewhat then as they haven't achieved any better than we have, with our "flops"?? ManUre is a model to marvel no doubt, Veron, Berbatov (the loss they incurred) hell they spent 30Mil on a DEFENDER 8years+ ago, how much do you think that defender would be worth now?? All I'm saying is, without Roman NONE of this incredible history we've made would've happened. He isn't perfect, he'll make mistakes but eventually the club has been in a better state in the long-run
@Mq
.....the players who were bought by Jose and Ranieri were the ones who took us to the penalty shoot outs? You think Avram Grant was the one who orchestrated it?....What does this say about RDM too KAKU?? :)
@Mq
Gr8 post.
zosBlue
Roman giveth, and so Roman taketh away...but this is CFC we've been luck and unlucky with owners all at the same time...Roman may have been the richest...but will he build CFC into the empire it deserves to be...No? Unfortunately on the basis of given evidence the opportunity for him to do so passed with the sacking of Mourinho and Ancelotti...RDM may have been out of his depth at first but he won trophies and he was sacked for a fool who has a history of eating children and also destroying great clubs...Yes Liverpool was great even though I hated them...Inter is great too but not after what Rafa did to them...right after they won the UCL...Roman and his cronies in appointing him have revealed their ineptitude in all matters football. I am now hoping that Usamanov is paying attention and I hope he sells his arsenal Shares and buys CFC from Roman Abramovich...If Roman still owns us in ten years time I shudder to think what will become of my beloved CFC...
Gian-Franco/Luca
...but will he build CFC into the empire it deserves to be...say's who that we "deserve to be" GIAN?? *smh*
@Mq
That was great. We still have the quality to play different systems and still win in style.
Kendemsblue
IN ROMAN I TRUST
Ken4CFC
Well said Kaku...And to add to what u said,between Ranieri (2000-2004) and Mourinho (2004-2007) was 7 years of management which ultimately led to us laying a solid ground and foundation. Mourinho is still the longest serving coach under the Roman era,and we have fed off his platform for years. Its basically the same point I raised commenting on an article yesterday. What exactly is our identity in recent years? As long as we don't have an identity or playing style,it makes it harder to acquire players who naturally blend directly into our style of play. Its basically the same inept decision that has led to the Torres fiasco...Now we are trying to sign players that matches his style...that's absolutely ridiculous and stupid from our board. The sooner we start getting things right from above(board/owner) the better for CFC. #KTBFFH
nelyvanile
A switch to a 4-5-1, with "aimless" passes back and forth, side to side would have tired out West Ham and slowed the game down. But we kept on attacking, lost the ball and got hit on the counter again and again.
foreign_viewer
@Mq...You sometimes are so ignorant,u drift around points like a toddler battling with sudoku...The point raised in the article is not about finances...yes the finances has helped to a large extent,but while Roman is able to drift out the money,he should leave the footballing matters to the professionals. Signing a player a coach doesn't feel he needs or refusing to sign someone a manager needs doesn't help the team or manager develop an identity or playing style. It was done with Mourinho,Carlo,AVB,RDM.
nelyvanile
Perhaps you misunderstood the context of my response NELY. Name me a club where the Chairman doesn't influence the player purchasing decisions?? Furthermore as I said, Roman has faults but for all those there's equally beneficial staff he's done. People talk about some "7 year stability" forgetting that the salaries the mentioned players were earning were WAY above industry standards, we kept our best players simply because we paid the best, and to whom do we owe that too?? You say Roman should "leave the footballing matters to the professionals" is it wrong for him, after all that investment, not to want to enjoy football while having top players??
@Mq
Sheva "flopped" beacuse Mourinho didn't wanna innovate enough to assimilate him, Torr-Mented1 lost 18 months of assimilation due to the inability to fit into the team or the team to suit him, surely you can't expect him to just kick up a storm after all that "non-action" do you?? I'm not justifying his failures but to blame Roman or even him (Torr-Mented1) is myopic, why can't the so-called "world's best" Managers innovate to suit the players they have, why should they be stubborn if they are the "worlds best"?? This predicament is not only Roman's fault, everyone (Managers not being good enough, likewise players) has contributed to this. Did you enjoy the negative football we played under Mourinho??
@Mq
I completely understand why Roman added Sheva, we needed more flair as we were all brawn, but Mourinho thought he was better and off he went, winning with Inter (LEAVING THEM BROKE IN THE PROCESS) where he went to Madrid and , not for the refusal of Perez, he wanted players like Sneider because they suited his "defend and nick a goal" mantra, which was declined. It's no wonder after winning La Liga last season Madrid is failing, they have the players but the Manager has been found out and, not knowing how to innovate progressively like Barca, he has no plan B. All this praise about Mourinho is laughable, he's a good coach no doubt but given a talented group of players suited for attacking football he's flopped.
@Mq
Let's make u keep embarrassing yourself then as this is really laughable...So explain Mourinho at Porto?
nelyvanile
Yes, Roman has built this CFC empire...CFC would have been second spurs in London if not for Roman...But, what i want from roman is patience. You now have tasted all the possible trophies you wanted. But still you havent tasted them with proper style of football. So, you decide on a coach, stick to him in tough times, support him...make him built a style for chelsea...recruit players solely based on their suitability to the system and not based on their success alone.
Blu_run
Appoint Hiddink as DOF in summer, Move Emenalo to scouting / recuritment head. Bring in any manager, who will be supported till death. We will see a new chelsea raising in 2-3 years.
Blu_run
@Mq, Regarding tactic, Rafa has more similarities with JM than with Pep. Why do you support him?
zosBlue
or why don't you support JM?
zosBlue
...So explain Mourinho at Porto...best squad in Portgual, drew nil-nil @ home with ManUre and drew 1-1 away hence going to the final, nowhere did he play attacking football there but it was an achievement nonetheless. He failed with Chelsea on 2 different occasions while having the most expensive squad assembled, LEFT INTER MILAN BROKE and has flopped at Madrid, so in present terms he's a failure :)
@Mq
Robinho - a flop? He was bought for 24mm Euros and scored 8, 6 and 11 goals in La Liga respectively in his 3 seasons at Real Madrid. Mata scored 5 goals last season, so I guess he is a flop too. If I also remember correctly, Robinho was sold for 42mm Euros to Man City. So apart from Kaka, I think you are missing the point and I am happy nelyvanile pointed out the difference. As it stands today, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Man City, and PSG can splash the cash. What will differentiate between the winners and losers is he who spends wisely and is able to build effectively. Juventus went to Serie B and still built without breaking the bank. Barcelona looks more devastating when all La Masia players are on the pitch. Shevchenko flopped because he just did not fit the dynamics of the team. Period. Similar to Ibrahimovich. Torres did not lose 18 months of assimilation. HE HAD DECLINED AS A PLAYER. He was already declining because of injuries. He had a poor world cup outing and was having a torrid season at Anfield as well as for Spain. We can't blame the assimilation. David Villa, Higuain, Benzema, Falcao, Adebayor and co have fitted into their respective like gloves. As far as this Mourinho talks, please stop it Mq, it is embarrassing. How can you understand Roman adding Sheva. With all due respect, what the heck does Oil, Metals and Mining Magnate know about players and fitting into systems mate? What does Roman know about that? Jose Mourinho had one mandate from Moratti and that is win the UCL and to WIN THE UCL as quickly as Moratti wanted, you need world class players which Mourinho brought in with Eto, Milito, and Sneijder. Whether being broke is the repercussion, but so be it. That is the price you pay for winning the UCL with the revenue base Inter Milan has. Moreover, Mourinho didn't spend stupidly as Milito is still carrying that team forward, Eto has been sold for big money to Anzhi and Sneijder will be joining in January. If not for your tactical genuis in Benitez, Inter Milan would have won the Serie A after Mourinho left. But for Benitez's tactics, they lost and please don't give this excuse that the owner did not back him because an inexperienced Leonardo took them deep into the UCL. When Benitez was fired, Inter Milan was 13 points behind AC Milan. By the time the season ended, it was a 6 point gap.
KAKUfrank
@Kaku, i absolutely cannot fault the entire article,well thought out and written. It is indeed the structures and foundation put in place by the early two coaches of the Roman era that formed the nucleus of the success golden era,and made mediocre coaches(RDM inclusive) look decent. Its also true that coaches that sought to unduely alter this structure paid so dearly.
Ohans
Lmaooooooo @Mq, please stop this Mourinho talk. It is becoming disgraceful and embarrassing. Take it elsewhere. I don't know. Maybe gather a couple of kids around and tell them such stories and lines about Mourinho. There is a show in my country called "Tales by Moonlight". I don't think your points are meant for a "sane" place like this forum, but a place like "tales by moonlight".
KAKUfrank
@nely laughing really hard!! I'd hate it if u were my project supervisor, u sure have a way with asking questions, by the way KAKU, well written article with facts, worthy of being posted on VC, God help the mind boggling thrash we read atimes, well u forgot to blame emenalo among the trio that are not doing a good job of advicing RA, emenalo should have adviced RA to stick with pep till he is sure he'll take over, as I said a while ago, we at chelsea needs stability, lucescu is a good coach, but he wasn't able to give shakter its identity until this season in europe, when is team humbled us and outplayed us home and away, mourinho is the best manager we had, we can't get a better one soon, we'll be able to judge that after 3 and half years of success with another coach, we need roman to choose a coach like lucescu, not an household name per se, but someone with strong philosphy of the game, someone who is amiable, tactical and someone who will invest in the youth by dipping in into that pit of talent and use them even if they are going to bench a 30 or 50m player, the only manager that fits that bill now is moyes, and I mentioned him because he is not an household name
Desmondadonis
Stick with RDM*
Desmondadonis
winter bargain chelsea should look for this guy rather than splashing out moey like crazy.. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2242707/Fernando-Llorente-Isco-Spain-bargains-match-Michu-Premier-League-clubs.html
shlok27
Mourinho a failure??? This Mq guy must be high on some cheap drug.
sojofjand
....obinho - a flop? He was bought for 24mm Euros and scored 8, 6 and 11 goals in La Liga respectively in his 3 seasons at Real Madrid. Mata scored 5 goals last season, so I guess he is a flop too....Robinho and Mata playing the same positions?? *smh*
@Mq
*Robinho*
@Mq
...With all due respect, what the heck does Oil, Metals and Mining Magnate know about players and fitting into systems mate? What does Roman know about that...you don't have to be a Rocket Scientist to know we were all brawn and no flair, that we weren't exciting to watch, even a Rugby player could tell you what wrongs were evident in Jose's Chelsea, and he still had the guts to ask for more players, I mean LoL
@Mq
present tense ofcourse ;)
@Mq
...If not for your tactical genuis in Benitez, Inter Milan would have won the Serie A after Mourinho left. But for Benitez's tactics, they lost...WoW no mention of the injury ravaged Inter that Rafa took over, that e worked close to 3 months without more than 3 of Mourinho's starting 11?? Conclusion: There's almost zero o objectivity but personalized criticism from KAKU about Benitez, which is understandable given all your rhetoric and vulgar-filled comments about his appointment. As for Jose well, the "best Manager" has failed with the best players at his disposal, just like Torr-Mented1 being labelled a "flop" right now we can safely say JOSE MOURINHO IS A FLOP.......
@Mq
Before you criticize some1 take a look at yourself and if you deem yourself perfect then go ahead. If not, accept that people err (the bigger the gains the bigger the losses too) then, with that in mind, suggest means to improvement not just criticism on it's own....
@Mq
@Kaku pls forget this clown.
sojofjand
Let's see - Robinho played as an attacking midfielder/ss/wide forward position at Real madrid. Those goal numbers are as much as any wide man (ex-Ronaldo, David Villa and some other word class players) have registered. Name 10 players similar to Robinho and put up the number of goals they scored throughout 3 seasons and you'll see how pointless you are. In regards to benitez, when Leonardo took over, Samuel Eto, Sneijder and even Cesar were still injured so don't see your point about the injury woes mate. Benitez with injury woes took Inter Milan to 7th in a poor Serie A league whilst Leonardo took them up with players like Eto, Sneijder and Cesar OUT!!!!!!
KAKUfrank
...Name 10 players similar to Robinho and put up the number of goals they scored throughout 3 seasons...Don't need to name 10, I'll give you that's delivered DOUBLE that---> HULK :)
@Mq
You don't have to be a rocket scientist, but errrrrrrr at least someone with football knowledge to know who to sign. Following the same approach you follow which is THE PLAYSTATION APPROACH by buying players who might be great in their teams with great individual attributes have to led to purchases such as Shevchenko and Torres by the owner....whereby they absolutely do not fit the team. Roman's player decisions have stood the test of time which is SHEVCHENKO FLOPPED and Mourinho did not want him while Torres has FLOPPED when Carlo Ancelotti, RDM and AVB did not want him as their starting striker. It is time you and Roman stop playing playstation and let competent coaches do their jobs!!!!!!!!
KAKUfrank
Why would Leornardo be sacked then before the season ended (about 4 MONTHS in charge) by Inter if he "took them up" as KAKU says??
@Mq
LoL @ the Playstation inference, never did I once allude to doing such so for you, KAKUFRANK, to mention that means 1 thing to me, using rhetoric to 'drum up" support when clearly your reasoning is flawed. Stick to the realistic football issues lad, don't personalize this with rhetoric
@Mq
By the way, word on Hulk being a "flop" without even proving so...http://www.goal.com/en/news/553/russia/2012/12/02/3572765/hulk-happy-with-life-at-zenit-st-petersburg
@Mq
....Those goal numbers are as much as any wide man (ex-Ronaldo, David Villa and some other word class players)..Let's see, in 2006/2007 David Villa scored 15 goals in 37 matches in La Liga, in 2007/2008 he scored 18 goals in 27, in 2008/2009 David Villa scored 28 goals in 33 matches, in 2009/2010 he scored 21 goals in 32 matches, funny that you think this is 'similar' to Robinho's "8, 6 & 11 goals respectively" KAKU *smh*
@Mq
Ok,here goes nothing.....As much as Roman is to blame,i think we fans need to shoulder some of the blame. I am saying this cos,Until recent seasons,90percent of fans created a hype about how old the team was and why we should push out the old guard and bring new,young and exciting players in. Blaming Roman now, after all he's done and some people asking him to sell is quite foolish to be honest. When the going was good,and we were winning trophies,no one really complained. A few grumbles here and there from the old fans. Fans who were there when things were rough but even they couldnt voice out cos we all thought the managerial carousel,as bad as it is,seems to be working in our favour,well until now!!!!! So,here goes my own little opinion,it will be very embarrassing to go and win the club world championships and be playing in the europa league. (no assurances of winning it anyway).....secretly,i want us to just clinch the third position this season and win absolutely nothing!!!! As hard as it is to imagine,maybe,just maybe then,Roman will stop tinkering with the team and then allow a stable manager.
3nity
Great post. Nicely put together...
avbhimself
But the question is,what if its not really Roman? What if its Gourlay,Buck and Mike? Im thinking,how could a billionaire,who has lots of commitments in other fields,be this involved in the clubs decision making? Maybe he did sanction some unwanted players and all but ,if we give it a deeper thought,we will realise,he doesnt or couldnt have been making all those decisions single handedly?......And if its right,what does that say about his advisers??? @MQ- As always,you have deviated from the main point of the article and somehow,you have managed to drag Kaku into player and coach comparisons. I give it to you,good job. Your consistency at being so blatantly ignorant is of another planet! Almost messi-esque!!
3nity
My intention was about us not blaming Roman alone for this but blaming Chelsea collective, Managers & players included 3NITY but I was taken out of context by NELY which must have involved KAKU. All I'm saying is it shouldn't be Roman only at fault, it's also the Managers who haven't either been good enough to warrant keeping the job (RDM, Mourinho) or didn't have a solid plan going forward (C
@Mq
arlo) of if they did they didn't know how to implement (AVB)
@Mq
What does being happy with life in Zenit St petersburg have to do with 3 goals and 1 assist in about 10 games since moving to Russia? Hulk did double that in Portuguese Ligue, but flopping in the Russian league.....Quite frankly, you've embarrased yourself by comparing David Villa to Robinho since Villa started playing out wide at Barcelona and played as a Center Forward at Valencia. To be pulling out goal stats from 2006/2007/2008/2009/2010 of David Villa and comparing it to Robinho is EMBARRASSING. Even my 8 year old brother knows this. And there is a reason I put ex-Ronaldo and David Villa. In case you didn't know, that stood for EXCLUDING Ronaldo and David Villa. Again, mention 10 players in the wide position and SS position that scored high double digits as much as ROBINHO.......
KAKUfrank
Good enough in keeping the JOB and you include Mourinho??????? But Benitez is a good enough to manage Chelsea? Let me ask you this MQ - who will you prefer to manage Chelsea between Benitez and Mourinho?
KAKUfrank
"it's also the Managers who haven't either been good enough to warrant keeping the job (RDM, Mourinho)" - MQ. But Benitez is a good enough to manage Chelsea? Let me ask you this MQ - who will you prefer to manage Chelsea between Benitez and Mourinho?
KAKUfrank
@KAKUfrank That guy is just a piece of $hit. just stop arguing with him mate. His only purpose is to contradict himself. Making a fool of himself.
BlueAndWhiteArmy
For a more "statistical" and unbiased analysis, read more and you'll see just who's the "better" player before you start labeling them as flops: http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/basics/spielervergleich/basics_80562_50202.html
@Mq
....What does being happy with life in Zenit St petersburg have to do with 3 goals and 1 assist in about 10 games since moving to Russia? Hulk did double that in Portuguese Ligue, but flopping in the Russian league.....he stated starting to settle now, and he's only been there 2 months so calling him a flop @ this moment is laughable, and to whom are you comparing him to?? Hulk has played 13 games, scored 4 and assisted 2, BEING A WINGER NOT STRIKER, compare him with Hazard (who joined before the season started btw) has played 24 games, scored 4 and assisted 10, who's the "flop" between the 2 players playing the same position??
@Mq
Stats comparing Robinho to Hulk…http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/basics/spielervergleich/basics_80562_15511.html…that you think Robinho’s goals are “standard” is laughable
@Mq
Is Benitez good enough to Manage Chelsea?? We'll see by the end of the season whether he's good enough, to judge him after 3 matches is premature but evidently, he was better than RDM according to Roman and he's a billionaire, you on the internet so who's judgement do you think matters?? ;)
@Mq
@MQ- He hasnt won a single match! He's been tactically outclassed by Sam Allardyce. How is he EVIDENTLY better than RDM??? Sam Allardyce and that west-ham team!!! Cmon!!
3nity
I'll argue that 4-3-3, as I'm not convinced we're lacking in numbers in the midfield compartment. Lamps can sub for Oscar (even Ryan Bertrand has played there, and after this summer McEachran can, even John Swift he doesn't go out on loan). Oriol Romeu may indeed be a poor substitute for Mikel, but by this summer we'll have Chalobah. As for Ramires, well, we could recall Conor Clifford (if we're not comfortable with Saville subbing).
Maestrinho
I hate to interject in the ongoing exchange between Mq and KaKu but i just need to make two quick points to Mq. 1. You really lose all credibility as having a grasp on the basics of the game in europe when you come and say Mourinhio is a flop or is not good enough to warrant keeping by Chelsea. Love him or hate him, the guys record speaks for itself and even his greatest enemies the Catalans of Barca acknowledge his ability and genius as a manager..you need to go read what the immediate former president of Barca and Tito Villonova recently said about the man. Even your idol Pep Guardiola..even though he dosent see eye to eye with the man is on record regarding the mans ability..i wont bother mentioning his record..it speaks for itself. You think Real have problems now..wait till he leaves then his value to them will become painfully clear when Barca essentially become total Lord and Masters of La Liga with absolutely no credible challenge in sight. 2. Leonardo was not sacked by inter..do get your points right before you post. Leonardo voluntarily left Inter and he was with them from his appointment by Moratti (after Rafa was given the boot) till the end of the season..he certainly improved the side and Moratti wanted him to stay..he voluntarily left to take the DOF position at PSG. Those are the facts.
GabeU
@Mq..very interesting argument going on here...i understand your point that the blame should be collectively shared by all stakeholders at CFC...but then two quick questions please....you said all the coaches prior have not been good enough or lacked a plan b....kindly suggest the two coaches that you think will be good enough or have a plan b that will not inccur Roman axe during a difficult spell going forward...i said two coaches because i dont want Pep to be the only obvious and easy supposed answer...secondly, kindly post the link where Roman has come out to say Benitez is better than RDM in his short time in charge...i am very curious as i would love to know the basis of the facts that led to such a statement....will kindly await a response...
layorh12
Your comment was Mourinho was fired because he was not good enough for Chelsea. Following your same level of reasoning or logic, Benitez was hired because he is good enough for Chelsea which you followed up with a nonsense response about patience since you were the same poster not being patient with RDM. The second question which you haven't responding to is who will you prefer to manage Chelsea between Benitez and Mourinho (if Mourinho was available)?
KAKUfrank
Please help me GabeU. 3 Champions League titles in every single place he has coached except Chelsea and a league title in Portugal, England, Italy and Spain. How many managers in the history of the game have achieved THIS? And your point about Leonardo couldn't be said better. He left for the PSG job.
KAKUfrank
Guys please get off MQ's back. He probably realises his errors but doesnt want to admit to them. Good points have been made and thats the basis of this article. My question is,where do we go from here? Roman cant keep spending money like this surely???
3nity
@3nity..you have raised the central crux of the matter..Roman may think what he has been doing over the last 8yrs or so is the reason for Chelseas success..therein is the problem..we have had some success no doubt but i dont think it is because we have been sacking managers left and right..i think it has been inspite of that because of the quality of players we have been blessed with during this period and foundation that Ranieri and Jose had established regarding a style and identity of play. If we are now to go to this brave new world where we change our identity and with a new generation of players we need quality top notch football minds to guide that transition..i hope Roman will do the wise thing..namely bring in someone like Gus Hiddink to serve as our DOF equivalent and then appoint a coach who has a CV that shows experience, versatility and winning ability at the highest level and then get out of the way and let the board with the DOF and manager have the time and freedom to actually build a new team without him meddling..for it to happen Roman will have to change his mind set and sadly as someone else mentioned earlier in this thread it may take us hitting rock bottom for that change of heart to happen. The book of proverbs has a saying that is apt here; "Those who are often reproved and still refuse counsel will suddenly have their necks broken and then there may be no remedy". It may take the shock of us Crashing out this years Champions league and severely underperforming this year for Roman to finally see that his past methods have been seriously flawed and need to be changed for the greater good of Chelsea FC.
GabeU
@3nity, nicely put mate, my opinion is if roman wanted pep, he ought to have agreed a deal in principle with him b4 he gave a fan favourite the boot, atleast pep's antecedents would make chelsea fans excited about him and give him a chance, we need a modern manager that will be fearless, that woild develop the immense talent we have in our youth system, and build solidly for us and there are a very few coaches who can do that, and they are joachim loew, jurgen klopp, pep guardiola, david moyes bielsa and perhaps diego simeone, if roman is to employ any of this managers, he musy give them a free reign both in transfers and player selection, he should also give them job stability, offer them a 5 year deal, with a get out of jail card free for 2 years without trophies, with the squad we have in place, we'll be unbeatable even by the likes of bayern, barca and any other formiddable team if that project is completed, like it or not, admit it or don't, we have one of the top 3 best players in the world in our academies, I mean collectively , that charly musonda kid, feruz, kiwomya, swift, baker, saville, todd kane, piazon, mitchel beeney, nathaniel chalobah, ake, mceachran, jamal blackman, boga etc.. The list are just too much harness them with the existing stars in 2-3 years and we'll be invisible. If roman wants pep, give him 5 years with minimum of 2 years without trophy or top 4 finish, remove all possible pressures and just watch on the sidelines, same goes for klopp or loew or moyes
Desmondadonis
Gabeu, why do u have to be the fastest finger to post our likemind comment???? Seriously miffed!!!
Desmondadonis
Gabeu, why do u have to be the fastest finger to post our likemind comment???? Seriously miffed!!!
Desmondadonis
A good article KAKU. It is without doubt the core players remaining the same that has helped us to achieve the number of titles, and in part this can be called stability, but I have one thing to add: The "Halo" Effect. It is a well documented fact that teams with new managers go through a kind of honeymoon period where they get better results than the previous trends. Many relegation fighting teams use this principle to inject a quick boost to the players in an attempt to turn around a sinking season. I think that the foundations laid by Ranieri and Jose gave us the core players capable to achieve the silverware standards, but I also think that there has been a halo effect generated by the new managers which has aided this effort. Each new manager has had a benefit of a talented group of players who they could work with to get the achievements. All the change of manager has helped with is to re-focus the players into getting results. Case in point: Hiddink, Grant and RDM. Each of these managers played on the fact that the squad before them was in low morale and disarray. A quick tinker adn you've got yourself a proven squad of players that know how to achieve (thanks to Ranieri and Jose!!). If someone was to argue "Manager changes has led to silverware" or "Keeping core players has led to silverware" then I think BOTH are wrong as you couldn't have got the trophies without both pieces of the puzzle
Bizarre_Blue
A thousand apologies Desmond..i do agree entirely with your post though..the question is will Roman see the light?
GabeU
@GabeU and Desmond-- I agree with your points but as GabeU has said,it might take us hitting rock bottom to get this done but I dont see Roman doing it. Seems to be something that happens to billionaires,they believe they can throw money at every problem. City tries to sign every good player even when they have players of similar quality in that position. Psg is being linked to everybody and now they are also in the hunt for Pep. Anzi will buy everyone if they werent based in frozen Russia. When people complained about billionaires ruining football,i told them to shut up! Little did i know! haha
3nity
Excellent point Bizarre_Blue..very insightful...that is a another wrinkle to the Chelsea history over the last decade or so without a doubt..left to me though i still prefer building a squad ala the Borussia dortmund model..can you imagine what Jurgen Klopp would achieve if he had Roman type money..my goodness he would probably build a second Bayern Munich in the Bundesliga..only better!!!
GabeU
I see a twisted link here to something regarding my experience in sport. I play a lot of racket sports, but I've never been the fittest of guys. As a result my racket skills have grown greater through neccessity. I need to be a MORE skillful player as I don't have the fitness to compete at the higher levels. Maybe this is a similar parallel to the resources offered to a club. If you have lots of money (fitness) then you don't need to learn to be great at developing talent from within (racket skills) as you can make up for your failings by buying talent when needed (out-running the opponent). Now occasionally you get the real super-clubs who not only inject cash when needed, but also have the ability to build from within (Man Utd and Barca) as opposed to clubs who only build from within (Arsenal) or clubs who only buy in talent (Us!). Long term success relies on the ability of clubs to do boths of these things effectively. If you can only do one then either you develop fatal flaws in your talent pool (Arsenal) or you run out of money (God forbid this becomes us!)
Bizarre_Blue
Mourinho ruined Inter. He didn't plan for the future. He didn't do it for Chelsea. He's not doing it for Madrid too. It's all about the present for Mourinho.
foreign_viewer
I don't need to explain this KAKU Roman himself made these decisions. Mourinho wasn't good enough then, right now Rafa was our best option and yes, you have to be patient with him like it or not he's our Manager :)
@Mq
Given the players Mourinho has at his disposal GABEU results are currently saying he hasn't delivered as expected, which is aka a flop, not so?? As for Leonardo, thanks for the 'correction' on Leonardo :) ...our comment was Mourinho was fired because he was not good enough for Chelsea. Following your same level of reasoning or logic, Benitez was hired because he is good enough for Chelsea...
@Mq
Chelsea will NEVER hit "rock bottom" as long as Roman's incharge, you can wish upon a trillion stars but that will NEVER happen unless Roman leaves. Come Jan we'll get additional players necessary to rejuvenate the squad and we'll be stronger. Roman is the BEST thing that's happened to Chelsea, without whom we'd be a mid level if not lower level club. He doesn't deserve being singled out as the problem, he's the solution to all the problems the club faces before and during the pursuit of success the club has attained. We've won probably more Cups than any club in the EPL and probably top5 in the whole of Europe because of what he's done, enabling us to get the best players that "lesser" Managers than Jose have achieved BETTER than Jose did. Whatever foundations this article points to, without Roman it'd be NOTHING. He is the focal point of our success
@Mq
....kindly suggest the two coaches that you think will be good enough or have a plan b that will not inccur Roman axe during a difficult spell going forward...well LAYOR Obviously Pep, but I'd also put my hand up for Klopp (doubt he'd agree though) because of their abilities to assimilate players into a team quicker and without fear. Pep did wonders for Barca youth (whether you have a good youth squad or not, if the Manager too coward to play them like Mourinho it's pointless) and Klopp has proven to be a master trainer of modern football (notable quick incisive passes in and around the 18 by the team that don't give opponents time to regroup). As for Roman "saying" Rafa is better than Jose, I don't recall saying that. I said every Manager who's been sacked hasn't been good enough (they'd still be here if they were, not so??) and Rafa was hired because he's the most suitable candidate for us right now, whether he's good enough or not time will tell
@Mq
...You think Real have problems now..wait till he leaves then his value to them will become painfully clear when Barca essentially become total Lord and Masters of La Liga with absolutely no credible challenge in sight...Real Madrid are 11 (ELEVEN PONTS) behind @ this stage of the season GABEU, are you saying Barca is "in sight" from Madrid?? *smh*
@Mq
I am trying to understand how a manager who WASN'T good enough for Chelsea came back and trashed Chelsea out of the champions league in their own turf (eventual EPL winners); trashed Barcelona (eventual La Liga winners); and Barcelona (Bundesliga winners I think) and won the Champions League again with Inter Milan. *Smh* at your reasoning.
KAKUfrank
@Mq, if there is anyone preaching patience, it shouldn't be you at all. It is as hypocritical as anything I have ever heard, seen or read on this website. I really can't believe I am reading wait till January from you under Benitez and you never said the same under RDM even though Benitez has yet to record a win and was tactically OUTSMARTED by Sam Allardyce for 45 minutes.
KAKUfrank
I'll clarify KAKU...When Jose agreed to leave Chelsea (aka sacked) he clearly wasn't meeting the requirements Roman had set forth for him, summarized as "not being good enough". When he departed, we lost the subsequent Champs League final on penalties (he'd never taken us to the finals) so the club had progressed where it wanted, in the Champs League. He thrashed us twice in the subsequent seasons, and we sacked Carlo because although he won the EPL "in style" he flopped where the club required him to excel, in the Champs League. All subsequent Managers were also sacked, maybe not for the Champs League but because they were not good enough for the club's expectations. If they were, they'd still be here though, not so??
@Mq
I think its obvious even to the untrained eye that Madrid,this season, is gunning for the cups and not the league trophy.
3nity
...if there is anyone preaching patience, it shouldn't be you at all....so I'm not allowed to "learn from my errs" KAKU?? I didn't like RDM but there was a time when even I stopped criticizing him but rather suggested he improve (I remember right, plenty were finding me backing him "unbelievable") he really lost me after we lost to West Brom and he said he'd "sacrifice offensive options" because right there I knew he wasn't the right man. He didn't know how to innovate but opted for that defensive garbage, what future were we going to build with such??
@Mq
...I think its obvious even to the untrained eye that Madrid,this season, is gunning for the cups and not the league trophy....LoL tell that to Perez and let's see you walk out of his office unscathed. Better yet, even in the "cups" Madrid aren't dominating so that comment is ludicrous nevertheless we shall see, the knockout stages are 1 month away :)
@Mq
The big question remains on who will be "the man" in the Chelsea hotseat come the summer. I for one am leaning towards a special one return to the Bridge. I think Jose is the right man for the job and will be very motivated to get the next Champ League title which elluded him so much during his time here. Unless he performs miracles then I don't see Benitez here beyond May, and by miracles I mean Premier League or Champ League win. Anything else will see him leave with a large payoff. Dear Santa, for Xmas I would like Chelsea to finish top 3 and either progress in the Champ League or get to the final of Europa. Final request: Bring us a good striker that bangs in the goals but doesn't break the bank!
Bizarre_Blue
Mq. Porto Drawn 0-0 home vs Man utd? They won home 2-1. And no attacking football? So winning 3-0 in the final is no attacking football ?
Lakupiippu
But Benitez using Bertrand against Fulham is innovation????????? Lmaooooo!!!!!!!
KAKUfrank
Word of note, your article is good KAKU but you erred @ the start, form whence my disagreement is derived....#1-However, I beg to seriously differ from this school of thought and this season and last season is proving such myths to be wrong....which isn't so because results speak for themselves, results are undeniable whether your 'logic' agrees or not. #2-I will attribute our success over the years to the foundations laid by Ranieri and Jose Mourinho whom essentially built the core of this team...this excluded Roman, the OMNIPOTENT person at Chelsea FC. He is the 1 I believe attributes should be made to *clarifying why the disagreement*
@Mq
You do realise that if Madrid wins the King's cup and the UCL this season,they will have a better season compared to Barca's league title,dont you? I remember a certain team that finished 6th in their league,won the fa cup and the UCL,they came home and were celebrated like they won the world cup for Uganda!! Perez isnt a fool,he's a football man,and while he knows nothing in football is impossible,he knows asking Mou to win the league this season is akin to @MQ admitting he is wrong.lol
3nity
Point of correction LAKU Porto beat ManUre 2-1 @ home and drew 1-1 @ Old Trafford. Inter beat Barca 3-1 did you see Inter play attacking football there LAKU?? As for the final, it was Monaco ffs, who'd fear them??
@Mq
don't recall saying Benitez was being innovative in that match, or any other match we played for that matter. Your last comment just about proves to me that you have nothing 'worthwhile' to say KAKU which is pretty much what you always resort to when you can't prove me wrong, sarcastic rhetoric. *smh*
@Mq
It's funny how when you debate 'certain' VC members pretty much the same gang jump to their defense trying to ridicule you. When you expose their naivety ithey always resort to the same thing, rhetoric. maybe this works for a "popularity" contest but to those with unbiased opinions, you just look pathetic. Leave the rhetoric, debate either factually or with valid reasoning, leave rhetoric to the uneducated
@Mq
@Mq this is the part of your post that i was referring to''he was better than RDM according to Roman and he's a billionaire,''....while i am really trying to give tot to what you are saying....my key issue with Pep and klopp is if and when they arrive at our club...I am sure a time will come when result wont go their way...it has happened to Klopp more than once in germany..and to Pep for some during his barca reign...the difference is that those club ownners gave these guys time to reverse watever downward spiral the team was going through at that time...and this is where I think Roman has to a huge responsibility....it is virtually to have a coach who will not go through a difficult spell: Pep, Mou. Klopp, Arsen, SAF, just namely...somtimes its better to support the coach and find other solutions rather than outright sack...the impact these sacks have on the long term stability of the club is just too deep...for me its more of Roman thatn the coaches...because if when this top coaches come to chelsea...they will go through a tough patch at some point...and will support from everybody..not a knee jerk sack....i mean if we ve got a top class coach...we dont have to win silverware evry single season at least while the coah is still laying the foundations for the future...Klopp did not win things at Dortmund for some time and he was given time...SAF won nothing last season and he was not sacked...something is fundamentally wrong with the way our team is being run....i mean carlo was sacked for finishing second..after the club decided to release ballack and co without the coach's say in it...they sacked Ray for reasons we dint know till today....and dumped FT9 on carlo...after we won the double...the board and the owner tinkered with the team so badly and scattered a working system...the team came second and the coach was sacked...that cant be right...the coach should be sacked when his decisions are killing the team...not the owner and board's decisions...why should a coach bear the consequence of the owner and board's decisions?...this has continued and needs to stop for us to move forward...Roman needs to learn...for me its not about hiring Pep or Klopp or whoever...its about patient and given the coach support and time....this is no play station.!!!
layorh12
Monaco had Evra,Guily and Prso in that team,they beat Madrid and Chelsea in the semis to get to the final. What are you on about????
3nity
^^i skipped certain words while typing...chelsea is dinking my head in...I hope my post above still makes some sense....
layorh12
I read Hulk being labelled a flop, debate that and no valid reason is given. I read Sturridge being called a flop once, debated again and no valid reason was given. I read Mourinho being called the "best Manager" but seeing what he's won won with a start-studded team, calling him the "best" doesn't agree with the results. I read about the transfer errors the club has made (as if we the only 1's) no1 mentions how much we've recouped from Torres' jersey-sales, no1's mentioned about his 'heroics' in the Barca semi-final and that he led to the corner that effectively won us the Champs League. I read about our current Manager being ridiculed 3 matches into his tenure, and while the personal attacks are explainable it's the professional 1's that have very little objectivity, especially from the so-called football 'experts' on VC. I read about the club's success 'foundations' being lain by a 2 Managers, none of whom would have gotten the players had it not been for 1 Man and yet that man's efforts are overlooked, instead he's being painted at the 'bad guy' I mean...where's the honesty in all this?? *smh*
@Mq
I thoroughly understand your points LAYOR but answer me this, would you patient with some1 who's doing wrong and yet has no plan on how to do things right?? Yes Roman needs to be patient, but I'm sure he'll be patient with some1 who makes sense to him, I'm pretty sure that's why AVB was given a tad bit more time even when results weren't agreeing until the clubs very future was @ stake. Mourin ho left because Roman didn't deem him fit, whether this was results alone or there was additional factors to this we'll probably never know but we do know Roman didn't deem him good enough for the future. All subsequent Managers clearly didn't have his 'total' backing, perhaps slightly AVB but none other hence they didn't last. Will he be patient with Pep, I sincerely believe so because I'm sure he wants Pep because of what he's done at Barca (success with the ability to implement a future plan) and I'm sure Pep will be afforded a lot of time, instant success or not LAKU :)
@Mq
"he really lost me after we lost to West Brom and he said he'd "sacrifice offensive options" because right there I knew he wasn't the right man. He didn't know how to innovate but opted for that defensive garbage, what future were we going to build with such??" Benitez did the SAME THING YOU DESCRIBE AS DEFENSIVE GARBAGE AND LABELLED AS NOT BEING INNOVATIVE. So I am asking you again, if Benitex followed the same lineup, how is Benitez's not defensive garbage and innovative? I don't resort to rhetoric. I am trying to find logic in your statement and I am having difficulty finding them. How does 1 man have a lineup that is deemed defensive garbage and non-innovative, but another man follows the same line-up and it is not defensive garbage and innovation? I don't understand.....
KAKUfrank
Secondly, go and pull out Torres's jersey sales from where you can find it. Not the jersey sales after we signed him or so called ratio of shirt sales to that of Andy Carroll, but from last season. OR EVEN Pull out a number that shows how many Chelsea SHIRTS Torres has sold in his Chelsea career because that is another line based on NO facts......
KAKUfrank
roman is fecking chelsea future in long term....at present everything is looking good but if you clearly see in long term then the way our club has been runned now it would lead us to disaster....no matter how much money you put on player no matter how many good players you bring but if you dont manage your club properly in a stabalized manner then it would lead us to a big problem in future....our club is sitting on a dynamite and the day it get explode it would be doom day for us....
shlok27
@Mq.if Pep comes in....I wish i shared your optimism...problem is there is no precedence for me to be optimistic that Pep or whoever will be given time if results are not very good for sustained periods...if chelsea finishes second without a silver under pep...how will pep convince Roman he has plans for the future under such a scenario....remember Carlo...in his second season...the squad was thin because of decisions the club and owner made without his conscent, the club sacked his assistant and released certain senior players...i can remember that that year..carlo tried to integrate some youngsters (PVA, kakuta and Josh)...but roman still sacked him at the end of the season....now to answer your question...the problem with roman is when he thinks a coach is doing wrong...evidence over the past 9 years show that it is impossible for that coach who is percieved to be doing wrong to convince roman he has a plan to do things right either immediately or in the future...AVB had plans everybody knew about...when the going got tough..he was sacked even though Roman was fully aware of the project over 2-3 seasons...this is my point...Some of these things need to change going forward..after we have done our due diligence and recognized a coach to take us forward...we need to give him time DESPITE RESULTS.....so long as all stakeholders believe th coach has the tactical knowhow...bad results now does not necesarily mean the coach is crap and needs to be sacked....this team is crying for stability and Roman has got a huge huge part to play in that......more patient and other solutions outside sack...for our youth to develop properly...theere needs to be stability under a coach...and there's even no guarantee pep is coming anyway...for me its the approach that needs to change....especially from the owner...
layorh12
Its like pouring water into a basket when u try to show some people that play station is different from reality, an article so straight forward and simple to decipher is now turned into puzzles and argument, only a moron would not understand that claudio ranieri built the foundation and mourinho bought the steel, anzhi's owner is probably richer than roman, and it seem PSG owners too, what sucess do they have on the pitch? Nobody will doubt that roman released the money, but if the money was not properly utilized, how can chelsea enjoy immediate success in a project of such magnitude? It took city almost 5 years to get were they were, but chelsea achieved succeSs in the 2nd year of roman, its only an attention seeking moron that will argue simple facts that a 10 year old fan would understand without being spoon fed
Desmondadonis
Kaku: Well articulated and satisfying read and yet he grasp. Being a vamp doesnt show any level of intellegence. Bankers are meant to be intellegent and not the other way round displayed in this forum. KAKU, u should know better trying fill water in a basket. DESMOND, spot on bruv!
Hardtackle
Kaku, its insulting to compare some dude's level of reasoning to the famous Tales by moon light that was never moronic nor was it inept but valid reasoning ... I stand to be corrected.
Hardtackle
@Kaku am disappointed at you arguing with someone everybody knows just want to argue for nothing sake. Imagine a sane person saying Mourinho is a flop, sincerely even my Ten year old son will never say that. And for saying " Mourinho left because Roman didn't deem him fit, whether this was results alone or there was additional factors to this we'll probably never know but we do know Roman didn't deem" about a manager that won us 2 successive league titles after 50years goes a long way in indicating the persons IQ level.
sojofjand
the reason JM left chelsea was not because he was found out by other managers but because RA interfered with the team. RA also stoped financing the team under JM when if given the money JM could have added 2 or 3 more quality players which would have taken us to the next level. JM had a 'project' at chelsea that was derailed by RA and his awful advisers. History repeated itself with Ancelotti, after winning the double with brilliant exciting football RA and his crew decided to interfere with the squad by getting rid of many quality experienced players and not replacing them. CA was completely against this move and was further undermined when wilkins was given the sack and torres was bought without CA say. History again has now repeated itself with the sale of drogba and soon cole and lamps without the managers approval. Kaku's article highlights how our success was down to foundations laid by 2 managers who were given some time and total control and its only when that control was taken away have chelsea been in slow decline.
MrDax
as for Torr-Mented1's jersey sales, some links to give you some perspective #1)-->http://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/blog/dirty-tackle/post/Chelsea-find-that-selling-Torres-shirts-is-like-?urn=sow-316727....#2)-->http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Chelsea-Fernando-Torres-50m-man-is-king-of-shirt-sales-outselling-his-Liverpool-replacement-Andy-Carroll-by-250-jerseys-to-one-article689695.html....#3)-->http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Chelsea-Fernando-Torres-50m-man-is-king-of-shirt-sales-outselling-his-Liverpool-replacement-Andy-Carroll-by-250-jerseys-to-one-article689695.html....#4)--> http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/transfer_talk/64117/chelsea-may-recoup-fernando-torres-transfer-fee-in-shirt-sales-alone.html...while this does not give figures the connotation is that we've certainly recouped some of the investment we made on Torr-Mented1, excluding ofcourse his goal vs Barca that sealed our victory and his corner vs Bayern that gave us the lifeline to win that game so yeah, it hasn't been a total loss has it?? :)
@Mq
....Benitez did the SAME THING YOU DESCRIBE AS DEFENSIVE GARBAGE AND LABELLED AS NOT BEING INNOVATIVE...I recall being chastised for not watching the Fulham game because I said I switched off the telie when I saw Bertrand and Cashley in the same starting line-up. Never did I condone it then, and I damn sure ain't about to condone it now KAKU
@Mq
Put it this way LAYOR if you have a long-term interest and nothing has satisfied you in between, you have the chance to attain that interest will you treat it as those to whom you weren't as interested in?? I won't delve into the Managers we've sacked except to say they clearly weren't what Roman wanted but with Pep, I'm sure he'll be more patient as Pep is, like AVB, a Roman personal signing effectively. I'm sure Roman also see's some flaws in the instability he's causing, I don't think he's a fool else he won't be the billionaire he is in such a short space of time, so I trust that he'll do the right thing to ensure his "signing" is a success as he seems to be doing for Torr-Mented1 now. He knows it's not only about the money but also stability and long-term planning, so while he's been sacking Managers you also have to consider the kind of players the club has been buying to see that he has a future plan which proves he isn't as "short-sighted" as many think. Yes he needs to be more patient, but would you be patient with a bungling Galfrend when you feel you deserve better?? *food for thought*
@Mq
...RA also stoped financing the team under JM when if given the money JM could have added 2 or 3 more quality players which would have taken us to the next level....are you serious we owed Mourinho more players MRDAX?? After all the money we spent, having 'talented' (at the time) players rot on the bench (Bridge, Johnson, Joe Cole, SWP just to name a few) that you think we needed more players is 'astounding' *smh*
@Mq
Is this why Hulk has been "underperfoming"...http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2243123/Chelsea-alert-Hulk-casts-doubt-Zenit-future-strop-late-substitution.html....and just in case some "expert" decides on selective reporting I'll quote "And afterwards, the player said: 'If situation with Spalletti is not solved, in January I will leave .' Hulk has endured a torrid time at Zenit since his £39.5million switch from Porto in September. His arrival sparked an angry reaction from the first team squad, angry at the wages being lavished upon the 26-year-old. So unpopular was the move that captain Igor Denisov went public and earned a demotion to the youth team.".. Still failed to prove him being labelled a flop LoL
@Mq
@MQ Why not? every team adds to the squad each season to keep ahead of the competition. At the time we needed a creative player as Duff was fading, Robben to injury prone and SWP not a big game player. If we spent 30m on what was needed rather than Sheva which JM did not want things could have been different. Its time RA does not interfere when we next appointment a manager
MrDax
If a team is managed well, we will see players wanting to come and play for the same. It is becoming a problem at chelsea defining our destiny when we really dont have the foundation for it.
Kendemsblue
Makes sense MRDAX but without Mourinho we've gone on to be loss-free which is good for us. He left Inter so broke they can't even pay Sneider well, perhaps he's more fit for "big budget" Madrid but even there he's failing with that plethora of talent at his disposal. Sometimes it's not about buying but using what you have effectively, and a good Manager can surely make an 'average' player better like SAF has done with the likes of Carrick. As for the next Manager well since he's effectively paying the salary he deserves the right o have an influence on that, like you would if it was your money
@Mq
@Mq...our discussion here is based on the assumption that Pep has agreed to manage chelsea...which is far from certain...and aside from Pep and maybe Klopp , i dont think there are many other coaches out there that you can say will be Roman's signing...Gus is retiring, Beilsa...i dont think he can work at chelsea....and your earlier discussion rules out most other popular coaches as most of these have been sacked by Roman in the past....If we dont get Pep then it means...the sackings may continue...which in my opinion will be utter madness....Yes Roman owns the club and its his money he is spending but then i dont think anybody will like to see his investments go down the drain...hmm...interesting times ahead....and if we dont get Pep...then going by your theory...things could get really interesting and maybe more complex...Why would Klopp leave Dortmund for chelsea at this point?...if i were him i will really really think about it deeply...the project at Dortmund is not complete i feel...although the team is already doing fanstastically well....plus Dortmund you and I know can be considered stable especially relative to chelsea....well Pep is out of work and remains Romans most likely hope and choice...but will he come to chelsea...??....time will tell....
layorh12
I can assure you Roman wouldn't have sacked RDM without a plan in place LAYOR the man is a billionaire, you don't become that by being purely reactive, you need to be proactive especially where money and reputation are @ stake, something I'm sure you'll agree on. Yes Pep hasn't agreed (or @least we assume he hasn't, who knows) but I'm sure Roman had a plan in mind when we sacked RDM, just as he did when we sacked all our previous Managers perhaps bar Mourinho as Grant took over and worked 'wonders' given what he almost achieved. There's always a plan lad, just you and I aren't privy to that information so we speculate then worry/celebrate over that speculation. Assuming Pep has accepted I'm sure he'll be given time/money to do what he deems fits, and if he hasn't agreed I'm sure there's a plan B in case he doesn't come. Could we see Mourinho return, maybe, but with him trying to pressure Mancini it's clear even he doesn't have that guarantee so he's fishing for a job and hoping Man$hitty hires him. If Rafa won the Champs League and/or the FA Cup+EPL and Pep doesn't agree we could as well be seeing Rafa manage us for longer than expected, and by that time if Pep hasn't agreed Roman will have accepted defeat and we could build the team "Rafa's way" something that will irk many a Bluez fan but such is the nature of life, especially when you have no control in matters which your subscribe to
@Mq
@Mq..its painfully true that Roman and the board are doing everything possible to make FT9 click...soo sad...that is what we get when Roman and our inept board make silly decisions while underminning the coach's authourity and making silly purchases...we all knew carlo dint want FT9 same as Mou not wanting Shava...but the owner wanted this players and bought them..then lumped them on the managers...that cant be right @ Mq....if Pep is the coach and Roman continues with these behaviours...then Pep will get become like his predecessors and ultimately get the sack due to no fault of his...how can an Owner with no coaching certificate or substatial football experience be purchasing players he feels right and lumping on his coaches...telling them directly or indirectly to play such players...( i mean how would a coach not play a player that cost the owner 30-50m pounds??)..the coach then needs to start thinking of how to accomodate such players into his own tactics and team set-up...that cant be right....its only in chelsea that i know the board and owner inititiates player purchases....ARSEN and SAF idenfities target (based on players that fit into what they want to achieve with the team and also based on the recommendation of the scouting team)...at chelsea...the coach MOST TIMES (not all the time) has the least say in which players are staying or leaving...that cant be right....I dont know if you see what i am seeing but there are obvious fundamentals that we need to sort out as a club so we can move forward....the interference of the board and the owner to team affairs is just too strong and is beinging to kill the team...Pep or no Pep....Roman's approach has to change..he is a passionate owner no doubt..and he loves the club i cant argue that...but certain patterns that work wonders in the business world might not yield the same LONG TERM benefit with a football club like ours...what we need is a sustainable structure and business model where everybody( the coach, with may be a DOF, the board and owner) all know their responsibilities and where their power ends and dont meddle with other pple's functions....its called corporate governance in the business world...so far chelsea has been run like a one-man business which is not sustainable if we want to move forward...we are a big club (thanks to Roman)...but then the club should be run properly...
layorh12
@MQ why mention the names Bridge, Johnason, Joe Cole, SWP being on the bench? You recall JM always want to have two quality players for a position. What was wrong about them being put on the bench when you had - Gallas, Ferreira, Carvalho, later Cole, Terry, Robben, even surprised you mentioned Joe Cole.
avbhimself
@Mq...the taught of seeing Rafa on chelsea's bench beyond may 2013....makes me wanta go beserk..is rafa really tactically sound...i dont think so...good coach no doubt but that is where is ends...while he was at liverpool...he gives the top four teams good games and won some of those games brilliantly...but then goes on a run of losses and draws with midtable teams (you can check to confirm)...that is why he never won the EPL...I for one i am not surprised at our results so far..i expect to play against top teams and then get plenty draws and some losses against the stubborn mid table teams...rafa has always been like that and after 3 matches...i honestly do not think much as changed...one thing i know is if rafa's positon is going to be appraised solely based on how the team fairs between now and the end of the season (if he lasts that long),he wont last beyond end of the season....he is not what we need....terrible at purchases, does not develop youth...quitte arrogant, and a bad man-manager....like i said he is a good coach...but its not more than that....cant wait for him to leave...that will happen naturally...as i dont think he'll surpass RDM's achievement even though we will play in more competitions under him...seriously i cant stand rafa...its my view though and i am not the owner....still i cant wait for him to just leave.
layorh12
Everybody was singing the praises of the board after signing Oscar and Hazzard in the summer - we have had a poor month in November - we just need to win a couple of games and we will be motoring again....
Dixons-Betting-Slip
@MQ's comments about shirt sales got me looking into things quite heavily online. As of Q4 2012 Chelsea are now the 4th largest shirt sellers in the world with 910k shirts. Another article claims that although the official "Torres" shirt sale number are not disclosed, they were NINE TIMES ihgher than the rest of the squad put together. Now put this into perspective with both Drogba and Lampard shirts appearing in the top 10 Premier League shirt sales. So let's try and make up some ratios here. 910k shirts with 9 parts Torres and 1 part "others" = 91k shirts (best case). If you assume that no more than half of all shirts purchased are blank (just take a look at the people wearing them to know that easily more than half are named), then it would make the Torres figure 45.5k shirts. Next assume that you have a reasonable profit level of 15-20% per shirt then it would give around £7 per shirt based on £50 selling price and 25% margin to the retailer (much less is likely). On that basis Torres shirts would be bringing in somewhere between £320k and £640k per year to the club. In perspective that's somewhere between 2 and 4 weeks wages for FT9...... Of course all my numbers are based on major assumptions as I don't know the exact profit margins per shirt, but it is manufacture, so 15-20% seems reasonable!
Bizarre_Blue
That's in Q4 2012 BIZARRE those articles were inferring to about the time he joined us (JAN 2011) and I too was searching for statistical data dating back then. It obvious Torr-Mented1's jersey sales were @ their prime Q1 2011 and subsequently declined as the year progressed and his value regressed.
@Mq
I know many that would dread seeing Rafa Managing Chelsea but given lack of alternatives (if Pep declined) and Rafa's won either the Champs League or FA Cup+EPL we'd have to accept it unfortunately. Such is life when you have no control lad *shrugging shoulders*
@Mq
@Mq if pep declines and God forbids Rafa signs a longer term deal...i am very sure his own bad patch will soon come and he'll definifinately get the sack given his love for playing draw sandwitched in between losses against stuborn mid table teams....when he is sacked...i think we are almost out of other options....by then i think most coaches will just run especially if by any small chance pep goes public by stating his reasons for refusing chelsea....i find this scenarios very very funny..maybe then Roman would have completed his coaching certifications assisted by Emenalo....hopfully we are not for a mess....I love chelsea.
layorh12
although the scenario i painted above is worst case...i personally dont think rafa will the EPL or champions league even if we qualify today....maybe FA cup ( i have serious doubt) and more likely capital one cup....so i am looking at a best case of CWC and capital one...while i will constantly be on my knees for a top four finish....that should be enof to get him kicked out hopefully....we can even get Moyes i dont mind....but not rafa please....i am willing a place a bet on my outlook on Rafa's abililities and what he is likely to win for any doubting thomas....@mq..wanna bet?
layorh12
LoL I'm not confident yet to make that bet LAYOR I'm still in the "maybe" stage, I'll be sure by end Dec and then we can have a bet. But best believe though, Roman and the board gambled sacking RDM because they know of an existent or possible Plan B otherwise they wouldn't have acted as they did. Don't forget RDM was clearly unwanted from the start (the delays in giving him the contract, the "publicized" 1 year evaluation clause) so while these actions may have surprised many, once you consider how he was appointed you'll see this was always a sacking in the making
@Mq
@Mq..nice gisting with you, i enjoyed it...although i honestly out myself in Romans shoes...and considered how i would i felt after Juve pounced my multimillion investment 3-0 at turin...that must have been painful from a owners persoective who spends the money...so m sure he got som *****ed that he acted in annoyance which i think could be justified...we are all human beings after all..nobody likes to waste money...the supercup was a disgrace...and n sure that was also on Roman's mind as well....in hindsight, maybe he had reasons to sack RDM..the tot of not progressing from the champions league group stage must have really irritated him.... but then Rafa??...please Roman...dont do that again....Thank you for all the bliss you brought to chelsea...its time to forge ahead...@Mq you sitting on the fence till fence till december till the end of december means you actually dont trust the fat spanish waiter...looooool...i think i found you out finally...looool....better join me prayers...Rafa needs to leave chelsea asap....ttyl.
layorh12
 

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