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'If It's Football, It's Vital'

Benitiez Under Fire

Sat in my favourite comfy armchair yesterday afternoon, mulling over what I`d just witnessed at Griffin Park, I realized that watching Chelsea these days is far from comfortable.

If we`d have lost yesterday, joining the likes of Norwich, Liverpool and Spurs as teams who exited the 4th round to sides from lower divisions, I`d have had no arguments.

Something is clearly very amiss at the home of the Champions of Europe and that glorious night of 19th May seems an absolute eternity away.

The air of discontent, at the way things are going, from the Vital Chelsea membership continues to generate a healthy debate with, I`d hazard a guess opinion split down the middle as far as our interim manager Rafa Benitez, goes.

Yesterday, at Griffin Park, Rafa was forced to run the gauntlet at half time. Walking past the away support, it was noticeable that there was more than one vitriolic comment being hurled in his general direction.

Clearly visible, hung at the back of the stand housing the Chelsea support, was a RAFA OUT banner whilst chants filled the air of "You don`t know what you`re doing." at various stages of the match!

Responding to the taunts, in his post match interview, Rafa commented,

"I guarantee that sending on Juan Mata and changing the game showed we do know what we are doing."

Some might question that bringing Cesar Azpilicueta for Branislav Ivanovic when we were chasing the game might be a questionable decision and also delaying bringing on Demba Ba until it was almost too late another.

But, continuing, Rafa filled us in, just in case you`d forgotten it, with what kind of season this is, further remarking,

"It is a transition period at the club. They wanted a manager with experience and I will try to do my best."

Does the word dinosaur in the modern game spring to mind?

And as for the shambles of a display we produced yesterday, a performance many rate as being our worst for ages, the interim manager further added,

"We didn`t do what we had talked about and made too many mistakes."

"We were giving the ball in simple situations."

"If you don`t do well in the first minute of this kind of game the other team grow in confidence and it becomes more difficult."

"But I was really pleased with the reaction in the second half."

"The quality and character we showed was much better."


Indeed it was, but then again are you (Rafa) not the person responsible for motivating those who you select?

Earlier, I questioned whether there was something seriously amiss at Chelsea Football Club, is it that Rafa, with all his Liverpool history, is a square peg in a round hole or is it more serious, could he have lost the dressing room without ever really have it on board?

We`d be interested to hear your views!




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The Journalist

Writer: Merlin Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Monday January 28 2013

Time: 12:59PM

Your Comments

hot Seat hot seat!...run tubby!...hot heat hot seat!...he asked for it dint he?...I wish him all the best to the end of the season..then hopefuly the seat becomes too hot and he moves on...hmm....so fat folks can have itchy asses...if the seat is hot enough!...lmao!!!!.......
layorh12
I think we all knew last year that our team weren't European cup winning quality at the time, and that it was just a matter of Karma rewarding us for something that we should have won 2ce in the 9 year period leading to last summer. Be that as it may, I can't really recall any chelsea manager that hasnt been under fire for one reason or the other, post Mourinho. We only need to look across the pond at Spuds to see how easy it easy to be kicked out of these one leg knockout cup competitions. I agree that RB is not our ideal manager 9 (not even close), but we should be careful of shooting ourselves in the foot and making things worse. The fact is Rafa'll be here till the end of the season (and not a day later i hope)...Isnt it more efficient to try to support him till then?...no amount of criticsm or booing or negative chanting will change that but the negativity (in whatever shape or form) can certainly affect our team performances esp at home... I am no Rafa fan (quite the contrary) but reality is never too far away from my thinking....All i care about is chelsea results and thinking objectively about what can improve them between now and the end of the season...criticising Rafa unrelengtingly isnt one of my recommended solutions #justsayin...I am also as disappointed (if not more) as most of you regarding our current performances, but lets keep supporting the team...
JohnnyOz
Just hope he doesn't cost us a top 4 finish. Inconsistent performances here and there. The board is also partly to blame, selling and loaning out so many players without re-enforcements leaving a misfiring Torres upfront. I guess by now everyone now knows why RDM failed to qualify to the knockout stages of the CL.
emperorzert12
I dont think i have anything else to add after going through your comment @johnny,it echoed my sentiment in no less or more ways. Well said!!
Ohans
Rafa is not the man for Chelsea. We all know that. The bigger problem as I see it is the people behind the scenes who let Lukaku, De Bruyne, Essien, and many many more go out on Loan when we want them. Torres is also like a cancer. He puts no effort in, has lost any pace he had, cant shoot, cant run. He is pathetic and should be sacked as he is not doing what he is being paid for. Since he signed or us we have gone backwards. #TorresOut #RafaOut - Come back Jose please?
funkyav
Is sacking rafa the solution to our problems??
Ken4CFC
Well said @johnnyoz
Ken4CFC
we have to keep Rafa til end of season but we dont have to be happy about it... We dont want him to think that he can have the job full time... as long as he is reminded he is "interim" manager thats fine by me!
funkyav
absolute spot on Johnny. I have no time for Rafa either. But we have to support him and get the pressure off him, the team and everybody by trying to support the TEAM. note the "TEAM". let us pretend that he does not exist while we give the team full support it desperately needs especially at the bridge. Rafa may not be our cup of tea, but we can't deny that he knows his onions.
Dwonder
Marco Materazzi has hit back at Rafa Benitez... in style! "I am a liar? Then he's skinny. I feel sorry for the fans of Chelsea" #CFC Hahaha...Materazzi its not been easy mate...Lol
nelyvanile
Dwonder - how does he know his onions? Have you seen his substitutions/heard his garbled explanations? He failed at Inter spectacularly, failed at Liverpool. Won with Valencia a long time ago when Barca and Real had the weakest teams they have ever had. He is still dining out on this success.
funkyav
@nely...Materazzi is a bad bad guy..lol.he just wont keep quiet..we all know tubby is lying anyways...more than 2 inter players already confirmed Materazzi's position...."I am a liar? Then he's skinny....lmao...looool crazy dude.
layorh12
i think we need to bring a new midfielder like benat' we play well...but we give the ball away too easily...we need someone who can control the tempo of the game he can organize great counter attacks & give the ball to MAZAKAR higher up the pitch...giving them more freedom to show their magic
raghavgurbaxani1994
just getting reports that ISCO has signed a new deal at Malaga...heck yet another one bites the dust!! #whatnow
JohnnyOz
Everton will be signing Leroy Fer from FC Twente...He is Box to Box mdfielder and similar to Fellani...Does this give us hope of signing Fellani this window...The chances are remote....Really frustated by our midfield (pivot) perfomance, really hoping this happens
Chelseaforlife567
Funkav,he did not fail at liverpool,u cant erase his success at valencia whether its a long time or not
Ken4CFC
I'm a keen follower of the italian league,due to its technicality. There are similar signs of Rafa's reign at inter to his Chelsea reign right now. Fans at inter never warmed up to him as a replacement for Mourinho,not as vibrant as CFC fans detest him. Inter were struggling with injuries and squad depth,according to the players some of the injuries were attributed to Rafa's training style as it was pretty intensive and he got into a fight with Inter's chief medical officer over that. At CFC injuries,AFCON has affected our squad depth immensely as well. Rafa took to the media when he saw things were going downhill and complained about squad depth and took jabs at Moratti to give him a free hand in the transfer market,at a time Inter-Milan were trying to battle FFP and reduce the wage bill at the club,and he was ignored. He is gradually complaining to the media about our squad depth now and probably playing mind games about Chelsea not signing any player in this window. Then finally he threatened Morrati to sack him if he is not going to be given the cheque to jump into the transfer market,well Moratti obliged,and Rafa was sacked by email. Lol. Is he going to toll the same line at Chelsea? Would be interesting to keep an eye on his next few press briefing,depending on what happens in the transfer market within the next few days.
nelyvanile
Rafa cmon,do it! Do it Rafa! Threaten Roman to sack you! Cmon,you have the balls,do it!
3nity
heres hoping nelyvanile
blueirishman
If we get behind Rafa,he will request a full contract and turn us into the next liverpool if thats granted. Rafa must go,i dont care if he goes now or at the end of the season,he just has to go.
3nity
Hmm!@nely,very interestin theory...very similar to events here,lets watch and see how events unfold in the next couple of days/weeks/months (or even years.lolz)
Ken4CFC
@Ken........Rafa to go next is 7/2 on ladbrokes. tip-Betting agencies have more inside info that most of us.
3nity
3nity,i advised u in another thread to go straight to cobham and force rafa out since u are so desperate to see him leave irrespective of the consequences
Ken4CFC
3nity,u can go place your bet on it and lets see how rich u would be in the comin weeks
Ken4CFC
Im not a betting man Ken, but it is quite obvious that the man is on borrowed time. I am afraid that we might miss out on a top 4 spot with Rafa at the helm and that worries me.
3nity
Oh and i dont need to force him out of cobham myself,He is already doing that and its only a matter of time.....we will all be around to witness it when it happens mate. Dont you worry,a few months max.lol
3nity
Getting rid of RB would be the daftest thing possible at this stage of the season and thats one thing Roman Abramovich isn't - Daft...
JohnnyOz
Roman isnt daft,that i totally agree with but no one is above mistakes. As brilliant as Roman is,he's made some mistakes and thats totally understandable. If he decides to sack Rafa tomorrow morning ,Im sure there will be a very good reason for it ,and a lot of people will be very happy. Till then,all i can do is witness the rubbish that Rafa is trying to turn us into and voice my discontent.
3nity
Depends who replaces him JohnnyOz but I see little that Rafa has done so far that most Managers couldn't do with our talented squad (i.e. hugely inconsistent league form that puts a top 4 finish firmly in doubt, get us knocked out of competitions and very nearly humiliated in the FA Cup).
SpanishBlue
If Rafa's best defence is that his tactical genius managed to salvage a draw from the train wreck of impending defeat to lower league opposition, then he has already lost the argument, in which case we, the fans, are right - more importantly than being a pompous, arrogant and thoroughly unlikeable person, he is a cr*p Manager who is not fit to come within 20 miles of our stadium, let alone 'manage' the team!
SpanishBlue
Roman certainly isn't daft. I don't even think he's made many mistakes and have backed most of his managerial moves but on this occasion, he has made the mother of all howlers! and because he isn't daft, he knows it and will do everything he can to put it right, I trust him to do that!
SpanishBlue
3nity,even if roman decides to sack him tonight,whats the assurance that the next manager would not equally be axed in a few months time??
Ken4CFC
Roman obviously isn't silly but hes no Football expert either, you only have to look at four things to be sure of that...the sackings of Mourinho, Ancellotti RDM and RDM, then the big one, the hiring of Benitez. Great to have an owner who acts like a fan but at the expense of common sense and the cost of three good managers its a shame that he can't keep out of Football matters.
chipthechap
Don't mind giving rafa till the end of the season, seems it's going to be nail biting till the end. Don't like rafa but let's give him till the end of the season no point sacking rafa now it makes no sense. Roman has laid the bed for Chelsea so we must all lie on it.
Pila12
I don't think rafa can make us get top 4, he doesn't have the sense to, it irks me when they talk about his tactical nous like someone who have been brainwashed, this sheit don't know anything, he got a tad lucky against brentfort to draw, ba was the one to thank, and he is strutting off like a bull in rodeo puffing out as if it was by his own doing, peeps keep spewing rubbish that he didn't have enough fund while at pool which was balderdash, I have a list of almost 30 players he squandered money on with mediocre results, as far as I am concerned rdm and rafa are the same thing, while we can argue that rdm is just learning his stuff and is inexperienced, while the other have been around for a while and achieving once in 3 years.
Desmondadonis
Well thank God Roman didn't feel like that with AVB this time last year Pila12!
SpanishBlue
"tactical nous" Desmondadonis? 10 mins to go, losing to Brentford and bringing on Azpi for Ivanovic - the man's got as much "tactical nous" as a slug... which, incidentally, is not where the similarity ends!
SpanishBlue
Sunds about right Pila but making it comfy for Rafa till then will make him believe he could as well get the job on a permanent basis. Left to me,we've made our bed and we will lie on it till the end of the season but i am not prepared to lie on the same bed next season. And supporting Rafa this season might make that happen hence the protests. You can imagine how shameless he is,the fan base of a club doesnt want you,yet you are clamouring for the job on a permanent basis. You said at the beginning,''i will win them over with results'',you have failed and still you wont do the right thing and admit to your own shortcomings.
3nity
Yikes..some of the comments here are so caustic..clearly for some guys here this is personal..they really dont like Rafa as a person. For me i am ambivalent....he is not someone i would like to hang around with like i would with RDM or Carlo or Jose but i dont hate the guy and i actually feel for him regarding the mess he finds himself in right now. like JohnnyOZ i have tried to dispassionately ask myself if sacking him midseason will do out team and our boys any good..i am convinced it will not and could do them a lot of harm. Remember this is no longer a team of grizzled vets who can essentially "coach themselves". We have a few vets left in the twilight of their careers and a bunch of young talented boys and young men who may not have the mental strength yet of players like Drogs, Lamps, Essien, JT etc. We could literally jump from frying pan right into the fire if Rafa is jettisoned at this point. The mistake has already been made lets not make it worse than it already is.
GabeU
Roman won't dare give rafa the job full time, that would be an insult to the fans. Roman pls get his p45 ready at the end of the season.
Pila12
We need a duvet and blanket to lie on that bed becos we going have serious night mares on that rafa bed.
Pila12
Gabeu,changing a manager almost always brings in a positive kick in the bum to the team,atleast for the first couple of games and its a tactic chelsea has used for some time now. Its always worked somewhat until we brought in Rafa. What happens when we do a liverpool and miss out on the champions league spots with rafa? Well,The British media will be very happy,Rafa will make excuses as usual and by then,it will be too late to sack him cos no good manager will come to Chelsea. We will effectively be stuck with him,good players wont come to us for lack of Champs league,and we will welcome the second coming of liverpool. Rafa will start buying crazy players from everywhere and we will be done! God,i wish we could just get Hiddink to save our season again.
3nity
rafa under fire....please put some fuel to that fire...let his arse fell the pain of that fire ...and make him realize that we are going through the same pain under his leadership...saame old stupid post match comment we didnt do that we didnt do this...if you know all that stuff then why the feck you never did it in first place...who the hell bring on a right back when your chasing a game..if that is tactics then put that tactics in your arse rafa..we dont want that stupid idiotic tactics here...
shlok27
Hiddink didnt ask for players,he found a way to make it work. A good interim manager will prioritize and make it work. We dont want him to win the league,we didnt expect him to do a miracle with the champs league,hell we dont expect him to win the europa league!!!! Just give the league a good go,win the club world champs,win the COC and hes in the process of messing it all up. Hes already messed up the cups and it took a stroke of luck to grind a replay against brentford. Well,Roman is being careful but im sure the minute we drop out of the top 4,Rafa will be gone!
3nity
Even RDM prioritized his options and we all saw what the man was doing. We werent gonna get into the top 4 spots and he decided to focus everything weve got into the cups. He fecking won them. People keep saying we were lucky and all but the fact is,RDM made his own luck the moment he decided to go for glory. Someone up there smiled and agreed with his guts and the rest is history. Rafa on the other hand had a very good opportunity to ease his way into the chelsea hearts but hes bottled it. He had only 2 games to play,and he would have been the one to make us world champions,even SAF thought he didnt deserve such glory cos SAF believed we would go there and win it!!! well,Rafa found a way to cock it up! I cant believe anyone is still making a case for Rafa!!! And its not personal,ive never met the man but im stating the obvious reasons here!
3nity
Loose against reading he's gone, anyone care to agree. The problem is can the interim have an interim.
Blue1989
Over the last 15 years, which nationality has made the most successful Chelsea managers? Italians, they've won 10 trophies in four spells- which includes every trophy except the CWC. Perhaps we should stick to what works in the summer. Anyone for an Italian?
Blue1989
I do not believe we should let our past blunders handicap us from making any informed decisions that might benefit this team. Rafa is an INTERIM coach. Just we have a bad past with firing managers, we should not be afraid of making a decision if the performance warrants it. Analyzing/reflecting on an INTERIM coach’s performance should be done regardless. From a purely footballing perspective, Rafa is the worst manager CFC has ever had. He is a poor man-manager, a poor tactician and his record as an interim coach HERE at CFC has been awful! The question is whether Rafa has what it takes to deliver top four or not. Because to me losing top four this season will have far worse and disastrous consequences to this club than a simple addition to an already existing PR problem. IMO we can live with firing a seriously underperforming manager, but can we ever recover from losing top four this season? In fact we stand to lose a lot if we fail to finish in the top four. There will be no CL next year meaning less revenues for the team and a possible CL sanction in the future. We are talking of an easy 30-50MM loss here just from CL not to mention possibly less TV coverage even from regular league games. As CL winners, we can justify a certain number of live games. Outside of top four, the justification goes away. I do not see us being able to adjust our cost side according to loss of revenue. This year, we were able to attract players like Eden, Oscar and Ba. Once top four is gone, we will be fighting for players against Liverpool and Spurs not against Barca, City and United. There is absolutely NO benefit in keeping him except the PR argument being given here that we will be doing the bad thing again! Agreed that keeping a manager is the right thing, but keeping a very poor INTERIM manager for the sake of it, is actually doing the right thing at the WRONG time! Just because we have recklessly fired managers in the past does not mean we should never fire any more managers. It just means we should be more prudent and fire the ones who deserve so while making sure the ones who do not deserve to be fired: are not fired. It also means doing our homework prior to hiring. If Chelsea do it right, there won’t be any bad windfall at all from the firing of Rafa. We would simply need to do 2 things: (i) get the right sporting director in who has a decent measure of clout in the boardroom. Someone with good PR networks and (ii) announce the next manager now.If that manager “feels” he has to step in now, it will make perfect “sense” to a lot of people without having to worry about a PR nightmare.
OCBlues
@desmond,i will like u to post the list of those 30players,amount they were bought and the year they were bought..
Ken4CFC
3nity,this is definitely a personal grudge..hatred! hatred!! hatred!!! Is written all over your comments
Ken4CFC
Blue1989,u can as well fast and pray we lose to reading so that your dream will come true!!sack rafa,isnt that what u want??
Ken4CFC
OCBlues you argue persuasively but for me the danger of sacking Rafa is not for PR..i could frankly care less about PR at this point, Chelsea's PR image has been in the toilet for quite some time. You are assuming that if we sack Rafa today we can get a credible replacement who will do a decent job..this is a huge assumption. For what ever reason Roman and the board sacked RDM at the first sign of adversity because they never wanted the guy in the first place..it has blown up in their faces..unless they can convince someone who is either a masochist or crazy to come take the job mid season they may have to appoint JT and lamps as player managers or maybe one of our youth coaches like Adi Viveash for the rest of the season. 3nity mentions that new coaches often get a positive bump in results..this is not invariable...sometimes it is the exact opposite. Wolves sacked Mike McCarthy last year mid season and appointed his vice after fooling around trying to find a credible replacement without success..the results were disastrous and they are now back in the championship. QPR sacked Mark hughes and much as i love ol arry despite his efforts as of now QPR are still rooted at the very bottom of the BPL. The point is unless the board have found and identified someone who can step right up to the job immediately and do it substantively better than Rafa sacking the guy could initiate a full grade tailspin. I repeat this is not a team of vets..not any longer..this team does not have the experience or mental fortitude to weather emotional storms nor coach themselves. We are now between a rock and a hard place and we have been brought here by a steady pattern of bad decisions that now look set to bite us severely in the rear end.
GabeU
Ken,you are taking it personal mate,I have no hatred for Rafa. Just read Ocblues' comment above and you will understand better. I love Chelsea and i only want the best for us. The fact that we dropped out of europe so early this season will have a massive effect on our balances next season. Can you imagine what will happen if we drop out of europe all together for next season? Well,i hope Roman does the right thing. Thanks to OCBlues for putting it just right.
3nity
First of all, can I say that I will never pray that Chelsea looses at all, never ever, so don't question it. My point is, these two away games coming up are huge games against two very difficult and improving sides. We win them great that means that we can get away from those below us, however if we loose them or only get two points in them and Tottenham wins both there games, we will be looking down and not up. If rafa goes he goes if he stays then he stays, either way its what's best for results.
Blue1989
Kencfc, I hardly debate without facts, atimes though I am wrong but common stop defending this man when u obviously don't know him that much.... What I like about this fact is that they are corresponding :-) www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1221975/Rafa-Benitezs-229m-spending-spree-The-76-players-signed-Liverpool-managers-reign.html thekop.liverpoolfc.com/_Rafa-Benitez-Destroyed-Youth-Development-at-Liverpool-Football-Club/blog/5617004/173471.html www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=249365.0 www.empireofthekop.com/anfield/2009/11/02/players-signed-by-rafael-benitez/
Desmondadonis
3nity,'i dont care if he goes now or at the end of the season,he just has to go'..that was u speakin,it does not suggest that there is no personal grudge...if u love chelsea as much as u claim to do then support your team includin its manager and not prayin and hopin someone gets sacked..droppin out of europe this season was no fault of rafa(rdm did) and we are stil on course 4 european qualification next season,we are 3rd in the league,stil in the fa cup,EL and a slim chance of winin the league..u sound like its doomsday already when its clearly not..instead of campaignin for a sack,support your team...@blue1989,true talk,i get your point now,sorry 4 the misinterpretation earlier..
Ken4CFC
@OCblues. You make a pretty good point mate! I think this is actually a 50/50 situation. Sacking Rafa could prove to be a good decision and could change our season for the good,change the atmosphere within the club and reduce the animosity btw fans and board,as sacking Rafa could be celebrated like a holiday at the bridge. Lol. Sacking him could also prove to be detrimental to the club as it could be passing a bad message to the young lads,create another media boomerang,and ultimately no one might be willing to take on the managerial sit. Keeping Rafa could mean we hold on and ride the wave,we can either make the top 3 or we fall out of the Champions league spot. We look fine for now,but things could get better or get worse...The board have to sit down and think wisely of a plan to rescue our season and get us top 3. Like I said before,sacking Rafa doesn't guarantee top 3 neither does keeping him.
nelyvanile
@desmond,the links are hangin on ma pc,i would appreciate if u re-post them or better stil highlight the main points lets have a go at it
Ken4CFC
I believe we still have a lot of qualities in the team to make top 4, no doubt a very average arsenal squad and tottenham will always bottle it at the final hurdle. Cmon guys keep the faith with the team not in rafa thou.
Pila12
Kencfc: no worries mate. We can all agree we are in a difficult situation.
Blue1989
GabeU/Nely....I fully understand your argument, and you are also right (given the absurdity of our board), but I think you are sorely focusing on a replacement instead of a solution. And perhaps you have not yet reconciled to the fact and severity of the funk we are in. We are already in a tailspin....only waiting for confirmation to take place come end of season. But first let me point out that Rafa is an INTERIM coach who is out of here at the end of the season anyways. That’s just over 90 days or specifically 15 league games. And with Rafa’s record thus far (worst by any Chelsea manager ever), we might as well kiss top four goodbye. So for me by keeping Rafa (for whatever reason, valid, invalid, sensible, senseless)we will simply be waiting for confirmation of the impending disaster without attempting to do something. If there was any time to think outside the box, then this is it. For this is not a conventional period anymore. My point is that we somehow have to respond to the grievous situation we are in. Its like riding a bus without breaks downhill and telling everyone to stay calm! Just ram the thing into the side of the hill before it gains momentum. At least you can live to repair the damages to that bus. Stay calm and continue driving and you and the bus will crush! And again, if we were doing something right….the right fit can simply be brought in as a director or something. Or hire a competent assistant manager. If we were doing something right, we would know whom we are bringing in by now and some sort of agreement would be in place. So bring their assistant manager in right now or something! Don’t just sit there and hope Rafa will somehow do well. He is struggling......what more do you want? Does he need help coaching, help with players? Do something!
OCBlues
If it means bringing DD in just to motivate these players so be it. Match what Galatasaray are offering (18 months) and then convert the last part of it into a part coach/ambassador role. We are paying Ferreira just to be part of Chelsea. We should actually do something that benefits us.
OCBlues
Ken,if you think its personal,so be it! Its not like you can do anything about that,is it? You keep defending the man forgetting RDM was sacked to prevent the same situation we have eventually found ourselves! I fully stand by what i said regarding when Rafa goes or not!!! If you believe me not supporting Rafa means i dont love my club,i have no business arguing with you then cos we arent on the same wavelength. And campaigning for a sack means im not supporting the team? Youve obviously taken it personal mate! Who are you to tell anyone how to support the team? Listen mate,i dont care if Rafa feeds you,i dont care if you idolise him (as you clearly do),He is crap!!!! Now run along and take that to him!!!!
3nity
He has the worse record of any chelsea manager in the RA era and you are sat there making it sound like he is the messiah and all we need do is wait and see what happens at the end of the season. @MQ supported Rafa and stood by him while everyone was against him. He was more vocal than you are right now,go ask him what he thinks about Rafa now? Liverpool waited and waited until that hole got too deep,they are not out of it yet.
3nity
OCBlues,DD already accepted Galatasaray's offer. That ship's sailed. The only thing is finding a way to convince Hiddink to come until the end of the season cos this Rafa guy has lost the plot totally.
3nity
Some of you guys don't make any football sense at all.
ddrogba
@Des did u really read the 2nd of the links you posted? This was the writer closing lines " Rafa Benitez’ record with signings at the top end of the market is nothing short of brilliant. Robbie Keane being the only flop, but he was sold 6 months later and only a small financial hit taken on that mistake. Every manager makes tactical mistakes. Every manager makes mistakes in the transfer market. Despite what the press seem to think; Rafael Benitez appears to make less mistakes than most. We’re expected to win the league and European Cup on a budget and wage bill that is entitled to finish 4th or 5th in the league. We’ve been overachieving under Rafael Benitez, not underachieving. I’m not even going to mention the environment he’s working in under them two clowns" This was a strong argument for him.
jollyheart Torres
@jolly are u smoking weed or something we have been overachieving under rafa, pls can you explain how we have been overachiever . Losing to Swansea, qpr, drawing with Southamptonand brentford. Pls don't tell me about the environment he's working in, he should resign if the environment is not conducive now.
Pila12
@jollyhearts, I posted all I the links, both the one that favours him and the one that did not, no need to be one sided, but as for me, with all that rafa is still a wastrel and makes the money jose spent look like peanuts
Desmondadonis
www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1221975/Rafa-Benitezs-229m-spending-spree-The-76-players-signed-Liverpool-managers-reign.html
Desmondadonis
@ kencfc hope this doesn't hang, I am on mobile apps and can't highlight except I use my web browser....... www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=249365.0
Desmondadonis
@desmond,havin read your first link,did u realise that list was dominated by undisclosed fees,free transfers,loans,swaps and cheap buys,do u expect benitez to win the league with kromkamkamp? crowther? aldarevic? cooper? Duran?..he was given a budget of £20mil-a year(even wenger had more),is that big enough for a top4 club?? I think read this http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/articl-12222092/Liverpool-manager-Rafa-Benitez-faults-Causing-agony-Anfield.html...more emphasis on the FINANCE part,rafa faults were also highlighted...
Ken4CFC
Thanks des,i can now access those u posted yesterday,for your 2nd link,@jollyheart has done justice to that
Ken4CFC
He wasn't given 20m per year, the money he spent didn't stipulate that, when mou is buying players like essien and drogba, rafa is buying kraken and titans or whatever the names were, pleyers that have no quality or anything filled majority of his buys, among his buys as u can see, how many became world class? Answer that urself
Desmondadonis
@desmond,this summarises all of rafa's transfer dealings,years,total net spendin e.t.c www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/7675751/Rafa-Benitezs-transfer-dealings-during-his-six-year-reign-at-liverpool.html.....u discover that in most cases he had to sell to fund his transfer budget
Ken4CFC
If Rafa is still coach come May...then we will not be in the top 4. Since he came we have lost out on all our objectives...He now threatens our last and most desperate objective...if he remains he will succeed in derailing our season...and the future of cfc forever...
Gian-Franco/Luca
"Benitez makes it clear when given the opportunity that liverpool are not in the same league financially as the rest of the Big four".."they ve failed over the past decade to capitalise on their global profile and their marketin revenue was a poor shadow of what it should have been"..that justifies why rafa went for krakens and titans when mou was buyin drogba and essien
Ken4CFC
Then there is no need for further debate, since rafa with the "little" u claim he had, deem it fit to buy below par players when managers like moyes are buying value for money, players that gets the job done, not players that don't play for 3 months, some didn't even play for pool before they were sold
Desmondadonis
Rafa takes no responsibility...he spent those untold fortunes on keane...he bought aquillani for five million less than what we paid for mata...same as what we spent on ramires...he alienated alonso...he is trying the same with oscar who under rdm was a revelation...rafa has destroyed his confidence...rafa is the worst thing to happen to cfc in the last ten years.
Gian-Franco/Luca
0@Ken the fact that a coach is on a small budget compared to rivals does not mean he should always and for 80% of the time sign gibberish....how much does wenger spend on transfers every season?...even though he has a lot more to spend....you are trying to defend somthing that is as obvious as the day light mate....Mattezari has the best words for our clown of a coach...''It pains me to say good luck to Chelsea but I will anyway. I feel sorry for their fans. If I was president of a club, I would not trust him with my team."....ask Masherano and Alonso...I am sure these guys will tell you similar things....Rafa asides the fact that his understanding of footy in terms of tactics is highly overvalued, is proud and is always a malice to the dressing room on the long run...coaches like RDM who some think is not tactically very astute at least is a fantastic man manager that ensures harmony in the dressing room...and while some of Mou's players might not like him in the dressing room, you cant fault the fact that tactically he is extremely sound...tactically rafa is average at best and his man management simply boarders round disastrous...ask Oscar he'll tell you....I will kindly wait until this marriage of convinience between rafa and chelsea ends...then pay @Ken a visit with an article...i am patient. Guys...I dont think this debate can ever be over...bcos it is simply impossible for @Ken to see things from a different angle...lets just die it...and every body should move on..
layorh12
@desmond,is everton a top4 club?? Is moyes burdened with the responsibility to finish in a champions league spot every season??..this are things u should reason before comparin moyes's everton to rafa's liverpool
Ken4CFC
I don't see the sense in the Rafa spending debate. The hallmark of a great manager is to get the best out of what you have and make them give 100%. Yes we have squad depth issue,but you must be kidding me if you feel we can't do better with this crop of players. We can play better as a unit,we can manage the squad properly and get top 3,by priotizing competitions we rate ahead of others. The key is getting your players to give 100% whenever they are on the pitch. I've seen this lads play at their best,and they can defeat any team when at their best. So let's not join the Rafa hooola hoo about squad depth...Rafa's erratic 'football manager style' spending and Abra's cash is a bad combination and subject for disaster. So let's not even think about giving him a free hand in the transfer market. I'm sure the club knows better.
nelyvanile
I think this all u really have to know about rafa http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafa_Benitez....readin through u would realise that rafa wasnt even behind the signin of robbie keane as thus "Benitez had reportedly intended to sell Xabi Alonso to fund the purchase of Barry,but Liverpool C.E.O Rick Parry was reported to have prioritised signing Robbie Keane over Barry,causing tension when Barry did not arrive"
Ken4CFC
@layorh,since 2005,how many trophies has wenger won?? Football has gone beyond spendin peanuts and relyin on raw talent(ffp might bring that back),teams spend money to achieve relative success consistently..wenger has the money but refused to spend cos he is contented with a top4 finish every season,rafa does not have the money but is willing to spend and is not satisfied with just a top4 finish...rafa is a poor man manager,rdm is great at that.but does not make rdm a better coach??...if rafa is tactically average,clueless(as some here say),how come he achieved as much success as he has achieved??(an idiot cant be that decorated)...@layorh,am equally a patient guy,ma jury is stil on rafa here and would judge him when he leaves but some of u guys have already sacked him even before he took the job..payin me a visit is totally irrevelant,i defend rafa as a chelsea coach when i feel he is unfairly slated(like i do with every cfc managers)..maybe its good we die it for now and everybody should move on
Ken4CFC
Even if rafa gets sacked today,i will not lose ma sleep as far as his successor would be an upgrade to what we already have
Ken4CFC
@Ken Difference between rafa and Wenger is soo huge....Wenger signs cheap prospects (and most of his calls are all always right) keeps top4 and sells those prospects for huge profit...which equates having little (i.e. like a meagre budget) and gaining a lot may be not trophies but monies...arsenal has got cash mate...Rafa on the other hand has a small budget identifies prospects (similar to wenger) but his prospects run the club down.....dont compare them meen...
layorh12
80% gibberish i maintain cant be defended anywhere...
layorh12
Although i didnt made up my mind about sacking RAFA. But the fans who are arguing tirelessly about how GREAT RAFA is should go and READ this article fully.. This guy is clueless.. http://www.sportskeeda.com/2013/01/29/a-closer-look-at-the-reign-of-rafa-benitez-at-chelsea/
BlueAndWhiteArmy
@layorh,arsenal board are contended with that style and they make available as much cash as wenger would need but liverpool board are the opposite..in the end what matters is how many trophies you ve won and not profits u make...let me explain why the figures are high,rafa buys a midtable player with his meagre budget and they are burdened with the task of a top4,some hit the ground running immediately others dont,majority of the ones that dont are either sold or shipped off on loan(and never comeback) in the next 1 or 2 transfer window... U and I Know that players react differently,some settle immediately they are bought,others need a few months while some others need years unfortunately rafa do not have that luxury to wait so he simply sold them to fund his transfer budgets,thats simply why the figures are so high,lookin beyond the figures u would see a whole lot of sense in it....his prospects do not run the club down,some are still core members of the current scouser team
Ken4CFC
@Ken you are missing the point...it is similar amount that wenger spends to buy cheap players (even he could spend more, but hw does not)...that rafa spends to buy cheap players...similar amounts!!...irrespective of whether raffa has budget constraint or not...they spent similar amounts.....from the article I intend to put up after this season...there were on or two seasons where Rafa actually spent more money on transfers than wenger...the key difference is Wenger's cheap target who are equally saddled with the responsibility of finishing top4 actually achieved that objective all the time..and while Arsenal were not winning trophies, over 70% of those cheap players were sold for a huge profit which makes arsenal's cashflow very strong...Rafa with similar amounts idenfied players...had a failure rate of over 80% and ultimately got dumped from champion's league...and like you rightly said majority of those horrendous purchases were either shipped out on loan or sold at gross loss...so much so that by the time he left liverpool, they were in huge debt and the owners had to sell....rafa and wenger had similar pressures to finish top4 and both spend similar monies to bring in players (even though wenger could afford to spend more, he did not)....wenger's cheap signings helped him achieve consistently the top4 target and even when he dint win trophies he was making monies for the club from huge profits on player sales... and rafa's decisions in terms of player purchases with similar and in some instances slightly more money actually ruined liverpool as a result of his abysmal record of player recuitment ....i have a lot to say but the article link posted by @blueandwhitearmy practically covers most of my issues with FSW...you should go through that, lt'l make a good read.
layorh12
''his prospects do not run the club down,some are still core members of the current scouser team''...how much money did liverpool loose on the 80% of purchases that went bad?....we both know that tubby's success rate at player recruitment is terrible (around 20% from my records)...please wat type of success is that?
layorh12
There are no top team in the world that operate sell for buy policies. Chelsea has never operated since Roman came in. That was the reason we was always going for top expensive players. Rafa was operating of SELL Before BUYING. most of the players he bought cheap was sold for loads of profit. Real Madrid have 4 players Rafa bought to 'pool in their starting 11, that is quality, Mascharano in Barcelona, imagine all these players are still in 'pool. for sure they would been stronger than what they are now. Mou has oversee some crap signing as well, it wasn't really a big issue because CFC has loads of money to spend.
jollyheart Torres
First of all i never said rafa has been great at chelsea.but for those fans who argue bizzarely about how CLUELESS RAFA is should go and READ this articles fully.1) http://maestrofootball.wordpress.com/2012/11/22/rafa-benitez-misunderstood-genius/ 2)http://www.goal.com/en-my/news/3890/england/2012/11/22/3546977/chelsea-fans-dont-deserve-misunderstood-genius-benitez 3)http://www.footballfancast.com/premiership/chelsea/deserving-of-a-shot-at-redemption-at-stamford-bridge#blog_item_1944
Ken4CFC
@jollyheart....Tubby got some right and most wrong...!!..thats the point of this part of the discussion...please try read the history of the discussion before badging in...
layorh12
Layorh,like i said before,the working environment of both managers arent the same,the scouts arent the same,the playin pattern arent the same,the ambitions(expectations arent the same.while wenger could afford to keep his crap players and be patient with them to mature into top players,rafa was not afforded that luxury,he was under constant pressure to deliver even when the funds do not match the expectations,he had to sell to buy(had he been patient with those players they could have equally been top players)..the logic is just very simple,rafa used the players he has to get the players he want while wenger sells for profit and not need..just as jollyheart asked:how many top teams operate a sell before u buy system??
Ken4CFC
Changing Rafa now might improve our chances in the cup competitions but our league form will suffer. It is not a smart move with 3 months remaining to play in the league...Let us get behind our team and stop all this hypocrisy. Some of you want our 3rd manager of the season? I thank God some of you lot arent running CFC. i can't understand how some people find it so hard to separate their emotions from the job at hand that is moving cfc forward this season. The qualified people (the board) can do and that's why they have the job and we don't. Hate campaign's never amount to success for any of the parties involved. It is unfortunate that a lot of you claim to love cfc but cant't see beyond the hate you have for Rafa Benitez to what's actually good / important for our club. Some of you make Rafa sound like a disabled leper who can't tie his own laces, but this man has a trail of successes behind him that most managers can only dream of in their whole career. Whilst i maintain my opinion that he isnt right for this club and should be gone first thing in the summer, i just find a lot of the suppositions, lacking in realism and punch. I personally hope Roman and the board focus on getting the team right for next season (including new manager and players needed), and Rafa gets us to the finishing line this season in a decent state. If the fans negativity carries on, then we only have ourselves (the fans) to blame, not RB & not the board. Yes individually we all need to take some responsibility. Its so easy to stand from afar and just point fingers. Lets do our bit...SUPPORT YOUR TEAM...thats what fans do,at the moment it looks like we're doing our best to sabotage ours.!
JohnnyOz
@Johnny nobody is saying rafa should be changed now...the issue here is some folks arguing that rafa has actully been impressive since he took over and his going in the right direction...like he has zero fault in the team's recent failings....that cant be correct...
layorh12
Ken...that last analogy is flawed if I am to be honest with you...I'll ask you just one question, How many of these players did rafa had to sell before he bought? :Insua,dossena,ngog,babel,riera,poulsen,diouf,cisse,baros,elzhar,aurelio,pennant,crouch,smicer,jovanovic,arbeloa,kyrigiakos,bellamy,salif diao,traore,sissoko,sinama pongolle,itandje,degen,alou diarra, zenden,ayala. You guys are making it seem as if every time he bought players he had to sell first…which is a big fat lie…don’t taint reality!
layorh12
* smartphone!!!! Loads of Typo need 1 with a bigger screen **** no top team in the world operate sell before buy policies.**** Rafa was operating onSELL Before BUYING.*****
jollyheart Torres
@Jolly..thats exactly the point ,mou had some crap signings yes and every coach has got some...but Tubby holds the record which i dont think will be broken anytime soon.....
layorh12
He hasnt been impressive at all. I think we were leaking goals when he came in and he addressed that problem initially but we're seriously lacking in depth so it is difficult to judge where we really are with Mikel and Moses having gone away and no activity so far in the window. I'm not sure many managers would have done much better playing every two days with the same 11 players bar Marin (who looks like a joke to me atm) what a shambolic showing by him on Sunday. so how does Rafa freshen the team? if Marin comes in with a performance like that and Torres is already short 1. Also - whats the point going back to player purchases over his managerial career? I can give you a longer list of players bought by Mourinho or Sir Alex that didnt work out...it doesnt make them bad at their job - just a bit more human than some of us...
JohnnyOz
If u think this fool would make us achieve top 4 with the way he handles the team then u are in the same bracket intellectually with him, saying success trails rafa anywhere he goes is an oxymoron, really? Success trails him? Why is liverpool so wrecked? Why is inter out of champions league? Rafa is not even in the world top 10 coaches in uefa ranking and you go on and on moaning about his tactical nous, what is with the talk of one person really loves the club and the others don't because they choose not to believe in ur ideals? Would I call the fans that don't want lamps in the team anymore clueless and lesser fans? Hell no, because I won't support rafa till he leaves in the summer, does that make me a lesser fan, its ur cross, goodluck while carrying it, I don't and won't like rafa and that is it, he is doing nothing for the team by my own standards and I have a right to form that opinion from what I have seen, if I bash rdm loudly when he got it wrong, there is absolutely stopping me from doing the same to fatso, I as a fan would say it as I see it and I won't bother covering up the cracks under the guise of being loyal!!! One thing I'll add to this is that, I hope our players play for the badge and club so we can make top 3, if we or they rely on rafa tactical nous, which is more of ineptitude then we won't be in top 5, that is very certain
Desmondadonis
@layorh,u ve to read many comments here and u would see many of them suggestin he leaves now..well,it seems u totally missed the point,am not arguin that he has been impressive so far,am equally not arguin that he is faultless,no one is,but ma argument is that as much he has not been impressive here so far,he has equally not been terrible(considerin how our season has been and our targets),the man is tryin is best to fix things,what are the fans doing??clamourin,hopin and fastin he gets sacked instead of supportin the team(minimum requirement of a fan),supportin the team should be our own little way of helpin them and not distractin them with personal attacks on the manage(most of which are unfair).
Ken4CFC
Who has the fault for marin playing like a joke? Let's be objective in our reasoning and not be biasly critical, when our teams were smashing teams away with large goal margins where was marin? On the ******** bench with a seat belt attached to his waist, where was piazon too? U have to prepare a player mentally and physically for a time when u'll need him, there are games we'll be winning by 3 goals in the 60th minute and we won't see marin or paizon at that time to build there physical aspect of the game, their mental and psychological awareness, we just stuff them on games when we are in trouble or chasing a game and expect them to do a miracle, it doesn't work that WAY!!!! Arsene and fergie have laid out the blue print, it is moronic not to take a leaf from that, even mou with all his mistrust of youths gives them lengthy spells whein he is of a mind to, rafa I am afraid does not know anything!!! And he depends on the players brilliance to succeed
Desmondadonis
Nobody wants the team to fail, get that out of ur brains, there is a distinct difference in been in fair of ur team to fail under an incompetent manager than wanting him to fail just to see him out of chelsea, that kind of reasoning if there is any of that is a sick way of reasoning in my own opinion, the person who wants his team to fail just to proof a point deserves to be shot
Desmondadonis
Thank God they are stil people who reason well here,thank u @jolly and @johnny,u ve said all what i ve been tryin to explain to some folks in just 1 post,just because rafa had some bad buys he should never be allowed to handle transfer huh??how some people reason
Ken4CFC
@Johnny..you are missing the point...the player is just a part of a bigger discussion which centers round tubby's overall abilities which in my opinion is over hyped...and like i said previously...all coaches at one point or the other made signings that dint work as evry one is human...but if you work the percentages there is no single TOP club coach that is near tubby in terms of terrible purchases...if you know of any please state it...I have my figures.....@Ken is saying those purchases were bad bcos he always had to sell before he bought which for me wasn't exactly the case even though I know that happened on some occasions when liverpool had cash issues...he bought a lot more crap players ( more than any other top team coach)...and he dint have to sell before he bought those syhte players...they were simply horrendous purchases...end of...which were mostly sold for losses or loaned out indefinitely...hell no way the club will trust him with trasfers...if we sign one or two players before the window closes fine...if we dont he should work with what he has got and try to make the best of it...when he came in he knew players will depart for afcon...so what's the fuss?....like @Desmond said, the players should play for the badge and the club and hopfully we can hit 3 by the end of the season then we can bring this horror drama to an end.
layorh12
Asides the fact tubby's history in terms of player purchase is horrific, it does not actually make any sense to give him too much say with regard to the players we are bringing in bcos he is only here on an interim basis...we cant allow him buy players that suite his own philosophy only for the next permanent coach to come and have other ideas...I'll say sign maybe one player for Rafa after careful tot by the board to be sure tubby has not gone on another madness streak in terms of player purchase, then we hope we finish the season in top 4 and tubby can pack his bag....A player like Fellani willl probably be good in this scenario as he can play a lot of positions so should not be useless irregardless of who the coach is....
layorh12
@layorh,its your understandin of the analogy that is flawed,when i said he had to 'sell to buy' does not mean outright sell and buy,i explained it in some of the post above that he had to sell to support the meagre fund the board gave him.hence citin the reported (suppose sale of alonso) to fund the purchase of barry (amongst other purchases)..well,to know who was sold to buy all those players u mentioned i would refer u to the "telegraph" link above,there u would see the summary of all rafa's transfer activities..to giv u an hint,insua was a swap deal for palleta,enjoy the read...we are not makin sound like he add to sell anytime he bought them,just that they dont last longer than they should(if the circumstance permit)..he definitely didnt buy all those u mentioned,and not all were as terrible as u want us to believe
Ken4CFC
Of all the players Mou bought few was a hit Cole, Ricky, Drogba, Essien, Mikel and Paulo compare to the failed ones, Tiago, SW Philips, Boularouz, Del Horno, Kežman, Nuno Morais, Jiří Jarošík. All of these players was sold for less except kezman that was sold for the same price as he had joined. Does this fact imply that Mou is not to be trusted with our money as well?
jollyheart Torres
It is a horror situation we're in Layorh, and trust me when i say i could go on for days picking flaws in Rafa Benitez and his style etc because i'm not a fan of his...I just dont think imo its the way to support my team in this difficult moment. I dont think the way to help a horse when its down and injured is to keep kicking it and telling it it should have won a shoe...i'd rather try to get the horse back to the stable where it can get proper care if you get my random analogy...Also i generally have a positive disposition in life to everything and will keep that no matter what....3 is still a possibility...Keep the Faith
JohnnyOz
Prove a point, sorry about the typo* @layorh tell the m, reasoning like that would ruin the club in under a year, I imagine chelsea fc giving rafa 80m to buy players and he ends up buying kaldejac or jovanovic and waldamljaballooon or the feck those names were instead of oscar, hazard,cesar, and moses, jesus!! The point is, rafa should not be allowed to handle transfers and this window if anybody is coming, and he shouldn't stay more than the day his contract expires!!!! That is the argument here, u are all arguing as if u want him to stay permanently!! (God pls forbid it) *shudders!! @jollyheart, please get ur facts right I beg u, was del horno bought? Or loaned? How much was khalid sold and tiago, jarosik, where did we buy him and how much did we sell him, pls explain
Desmondadonis
And what is the logic in selling alonso for barry @kenfc? Does the amount he bought robbie keane and sold him after six month for a pittance justify itself?
Desmondadonis
@ken...terrible for me is not playing and being shipped out..and thats what happened to most of the bunch that he purchased on that list above...anyways...clearly rafa will have next to zero say on player recruitments at chelsea as you can obviously see...and I am super happy about that....at the end of the season after we might have achieved our objective of a top 4 finish, he can pack his bag and move to the next unfortunate victim...or better still back to his website or role as pundit on another 2-3 years sabatical....
layorh12
I don't know the details of rafa's contract, but I am sure he is getting a fat pie every week, that pie is for him do a job better than what rdm did, that was the reason he was hired in the first instance, now ask urselves, is he earning that pay? Is he doing a better job than rdm? What have he done since he joined us? And finally, he had a decent job of winning 2 trophies, why did he lose? Would a manager tactically better than rdm lose to mediocre teams like that? Let us be serious here and stop calling a horse a unicorn, cause there is a difference
Desmondadonis
@Deamond...Mourinho success rate at chelsea in terms of player recruitment is over 60% like it or not which is very decent...so Tubby clearly hold the record of fund mismanegement in terms of players purchases....as indicated by the 80% purchase over A 6 YEAR period at anfield.....our board might be naive at other things...but they wont be as stupid as giving tubby money to spend on player purchases....fecking money monger....he gulps money like water.....
layorh12
@desmond,selling a top player to buy a cheaper replacement and using the balance to fund purchase of other players since the board purse is tightened is not a bad idea if u ask me...robbie keane purchase for £19 was prioritised over barry by liverpool CEO Rick Parry,but he was resold to spurs for £12mil in january(definitely after they realised their mistake)..however keane was an expensive flop,every club had them,(just torres,sheva,veron, e.t.c
Ken4CFC
There's a reason Moratti didn't trust Rafa with transfers and there's a reason the Chelsea board won't trust him as well simples. This notion that fans who don't support Rafa are lesser CFC fans is flawed...they are entitled to express their passion and emotions towards a manager that abused the same passion he needs and didn't deem it necessary to apologize either. I'm not one to support the sacking of the manager now,but I'm not going to cry over it if he is sacked. Sticking with him could prove detrimental and so could sacking him,there are no guarantees. We have 2 camp of fans right now in our fan base,(1) feel showing support to Rafa is ultimately showing support to the team,then fine tow that school of thought. (2)If another feels Rafa will never be accepted as Chelsea (results haven't helped reduce the animosity towards him),then let them express their passion and opinion. Rafa also acknowledged he will win fans over by winning games,well we've been blowing hot and cold and lack consistency in performance. Opinions should be respected bottom line we all love this club and want to see it grow,Rafa out or Rafa in.
nelyvanile
@ken ''selling a top player to buy a cheaper replacement and using the balance to fund purchase of other players since the board purse is tightened is not a bad idea if u ask me''..the problem is most if not all of the cheaper replacements purchased by Tubby were bad and dragged liverpool down...cant remember any that worked where tubby sold a player and bought a cheaper alternative and the cheaper alternative was good enough...you can name a couple...still thinking, i cant remember one.
layorh12
@layorh,have u seen our squad,we have less than 16players first team players currently available for selection,the rest are either at the afcon,suspended,injured,loaned out or banished..we are 1 or 2 injuries away from disaster..the 1st mistake we made in the summer was not addressin the issue of squad dept,now we are about makin the same mistake and when the window shuts and disaster looms the coach would always be a scapegoat,am afraid if it might cost us the top4(GOD FORBID)
Ken4CFC
@kencfc, barry can't lace xabi alonso's boot, so to call him a "replacement" is not ideal, but that debate is for another day, u didn't ask me the question I wish u'll ask, why was xabi alonso sold? What about luis garcia? How many ex players of rafa's have spoken about him in glowing terms? But with mou, robbie, carlo its different. My dislike of rafa is that he is not doing what he was brought to do, before we were saying it was stamford bridge atmosphere, now he is even drawing and almost losing away, the disaster is growing and he knows it, so he is already preparing excuses, I wish he turns it around because I'll hate it so much to say I told u so
Desmondadonis
@layorh,i told u if u want to know how play were bought and sold,go check out that list,ma memory is not large enough to cover all that..a correction,robbie keane was sold for £16m not £12
Ken4CFC
@Ken...i still think we'll sign at least a player....but I am more certain that if we do sign...it wont a tubby signing...it will be more from the board's decision which like i said I am super happy about...Luiz will be back soon....Tubby knew the number of players we had in our first team before he took over, and I am sure him signing new players in January was not a part of the agreement when he signed to become the trainer on an interim basis, I am also sure when he took over he knew moses and Mikel will be afcon bound, Its only Romeu's injury that was not anticipated...so Rafa has no right to complain really...he should shut his trap and focus on being a trainer...and come end of season, he should do the needful...go!
layorh12
@desmond,alonso said his main motivation to leave was because of rafa's attempt to sell him the previous season
Ken4CFC
@layorh, we chelsea fans of the motherland are torn between patriotism and loyalties, if the mother land goes home today, I am sure it would be good news for our club and we won't be buying, but if they progress, I have me a feeling we might buy one atleast, that is just hypothesizing on my part though
Desmondadonis
@Ken..sorry that correctiion isn't for me...i never quoted how much Keane was sold for...and I have checked the list you suggested and it clearly proves and support the observation that each time tuby sold a first team player and bought a cheaper alternative...THEY ALL FLOPPED....call it nailing your self in the leg...Rafa is horrific at transfers and I am more than happy chelsea is getting this particular one right....hell no way rafa will be givn funds to make purchases
layorh12
@desmond,we all know that rafa is not the best of man-managers,he loves to do his thing his own way (as materazi would say:he puts down everything in writtin unlike mou and lippi),in the past he has had alteracation with his players and staffs but thats just the other side of him
Ken4CFC
@Desmond you are probably right...I hope the super eagles to through ( i dont really care to be honest cos theve got a coach in keshi who has taken them 10 years backwards to be playing huff and puff footy)...so that we can make at least a player purchase now (Fellani seems the most plausible)...cos I dont want drama in the summer when the highest bidder carrys the goods meen...
layorh12
@layorh,this is not a matter of whether he knew this or that b4 he took the job.ok,let me ask u,did he know he was goin to lose the CWC and COC?? Did he know he was goin to lose to westham and QPR??..u can say he was desperate to get the job put does mean he should not be provided with all the necessary tools to do a good job?? Does it mean we should not help him patch a glarin loophole?? Our squad is thin and if we dont strength it(whether with rafas consent or not),we might end up regretin it(GOD FORBID AGAIN)
Ken4CFC
@layorh,the corection wasnt 4 u,it was for desmond..well am glad u ve checked the list,now tell me how many of those 80% purchases u called flops spent more than 2yrs at anfield?? Now Talk about nailin yourself in the leg
Ken4CFC
@Ken....if before he took over, he tot carefully and knew Mikel and moses will be away at afcon and that the squad will be too thin for him to work...he should have simply rejected the offer or insisted on funds being available for him in january, then we'll know he knows what he is doing and wat he wants....these are things that were already common knowledge as at the time he was taking over (Mikel and moses going to afcon)...truth is I am sure he tot he could win CWC and COC when he took over...but now that the heat is really on....he does not want to man up and take responsiblity..instead he is begining to scream lack of squad depth like he dint know that when he took over the squad will be thin during afcon....if we sign a player or two fine...if we dont he should go ahead with the plan he had in mind when he took over....If he has any sense at all, at least he must have tot of a way out during afcon..he should stick with that and stop giving lame excuses....i have had enough of his sisi excuses already.
layorh12
@Ken the number of years they spent at anfield is irrelevant...a coach sells a first team player, buys cheaper alternatives to flll a space in the first team, all the cheaper alternatives were bad thinking and bad business, they ended up being shipped out...does it matter whether they were shipped out after one, two or three seasons..?..it does not...they were not good enough so they were shipped at a loss period....look at it...in six years...a coach was not able to identify a decent cheap alternative for a first team player that was sold?...not even once did he make a right call.....and please dont compare to wenger....you claim the board gave wenger time to nurture his cheap purchases that was why he was able so sell them at a profit....at liverpool nobody put pressure on rafa to sell the cheap terrible buys he made....he put him self under presure bcos those players were bad purchases and he knew if he stuck with them results wlll be terrible so he either sells or ships out...wenger on the other hand had confidence in his choices bcos he had an eye for talent...results were not threatened (constant top 4) while he was patiently nurturing his cheap purchases which he later sold for huge profits...rafa choices were terrible and there was no way he could be patient with them without loosing top 4 (he lost it eventually anyway which wont have been the case if he bought the right players)..so he had to ship them out...it was one from one horrific mistake to another in terms of player purchases for almost 3 seasons.
layorh12
@ Des it seems u are pretty new supporting the team no offence because asking for facts. if u were following the team for that long u won't be asking for facts. But I got the FACTS Jarosik > In > http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/4144169.stm Out > http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/jarosik-joins-as-celtic-target-two-more-big-names-1-1122681 Del Horn In > http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/4083412.stm Out> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/5204474.stm Tiago> in http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/3904493.stm Out > http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/4191128.stm Kezman> out > http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/4630923.stm In > http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/3888313.stm Boulahrouz > In > http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/5265164.stm Out > http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/bundesliga/startseite/artikel/381060/
jollyheart Torres
@ layorh12 *****a coach sells a first team player, buys cheaper alternatives to flll a space in the first team, all the cheaper alternatives were bad thinking and bad business**** That is the difference, He had to balance the budget and the best option is to sell someone that bring in loads of money to invest. THAT is SELL BEFORE BUYING policies most team outside the top 4 operate. CFC under MOU was BUY and BUY. That is why in the last team 10 yrs we have only sold 1 player above 20mi.
jollyheart Torres
@layorh,so are u blaming for the lack of squad depth??..well i guess u are just assuming he that he knew that their would be no fund in january,tbh none of us know the full details of his contract(if u do,i would love to read) so i can equally assume he was assured on funds in the shoppin window...but whichever case,i dont buy this idea of sendin rafa to a gun war with a machette hopin he would take care of himself(or even wishin he gets hit)
Ken4CFC
@ layorh12 were are u getting Mou has more 60% success rate in Transfer, are u comparing all transfer in their coaching career or their time in 'pool vs MOu in CFC respectively?
jollyheart Torres
@Jolly...there lies my problem with him...when he gets the loads of money from the sale of a first team players...he invests the whoole money in crap 100% of the time...which is totally grotesque!!!!!.....wenger also sells and buy cheaper alternatives but 80% of the time he buys quality...thats one of the key difference between both and the reason chelsea will NEVER give rafa money to spend...we'll rather buy the players and give him to use until he departs.
layorh12
@Ken With Tubby's nature that we both and the way he always handles the press, if there was a an agreement that he will be given funds in junuary to spend on players...he would have said it...he's got a big mouth and you know that..yes the squad is thin and we should actually buy one or two players...but asides that...rafa is not doing his job...all those losses to qpr and co were largely due to rafa's madness not the squad...the CWC and COC losses was also as a result of some terrible decisions he made...so for me the squad depth issue is always there and had been there even when he took over...but then the result prior to now should show that rafa is a brilliant coach an obvious improvement over RDM..we are not getting that...its inconsistencies everyehere in terms of results...so the problem with tubby is not only the squad depth..the first problem is HE HIMSELF...somthing he is failing to admit and @Ken that is what is soooo irritating....i hope you understand me...
layorh12
@jollyheart, your attemp at a cheap jibe has no wash at all, but I commend the effort of the link it is enlightening, now to the debate we had before I asked u those questions, how much was jarosik sold? He was bought for 3m and played, del horno was bought for 8m, I thought he was loaned back then, and sold for 5m he played for us in all competitions pl and ucl, thiago was bought for 10m and sold for 7m,he played 34 in 38 and his replacement was essien, kezman was sold for profit, in the argument, we argued rafa is a wastrel, he buys replacement and doesn't play them, he buys for high prices and sells for astronomical loses, so tell me, how can u compare mou and rafa purchases? It is really beyond me, because I can mention atleast 10 players that didn't get up to 20 game time under rafa in pool, and some didn't even play to my knowledge, how are they comparable?
Desmondadonis
I agree that robben was the only player we sold for profit, but how many players are crappy players under mou? Compare to rafa's, swp is decent, u can't compare to diao or sissoko, elzhar, jarosik played a bit but u can't compare his game time with other vanity buys by rafa, mourinho atleast plays his purchases for over 10 games before he chalks them off as thrash, but rafa didn't even play some of his purchases before he sells them, even if he plays them, it won't be for more than 3 games, the same thing he was doing to piazon and marin, if he is given money to spend on players, he'll get players that are not up to marin's standards and claim they are better..... I don't think it was mou that bought robben either
Desmondadonis
The last i checked Benitez hasnt purchased any players at Chelsea so the whole attack above lacks objectivity for me... I also think that it is fine to have differing views like Nelynavile correctly points out and Layorh12 consistently gets his point across maturely and without being offensive, even when they are not agreeable...@Desmond could perhaps gets some tips from these guys or elsewhere because i really struggle to read his posts a lot of the time without getting offended... KTF
JohnnyOz
You can go through this to get enlightened, some players are not mou's buy, let us check it with the link I posted yesterday here and see how much both spent on their teams in 2004-2006 www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/chelsea-transfers.html www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2321598/Jose-Mourinhos-transfer-spending-at-Chelsea.html
Desmondadonis
@jollyheart, no apologies from me, you know what u wrote when posting the link, I didn't write anything similar to that when I posted links for kencfc yesterday.... Don't veil insults or jibes mate, I can't resist discrediting the attempt
Desmondadonis
@johnnyoz, we are saying we can't take the risk of allowing rafa to dabble in our the transfer market, because cfc is trying to cut off the deadwoods not adding to them
Desmondadonis
@johnnyoz, we are saying we can't take the risk of allowing rafa to dabble in the transfer market on our behalf, because cfc is trying to cut off the deadwoods not adding to them
Desmondadonis
no worries sire...lets just keep it civil!
JohnnyOz
I feel so sorry for the players, cahill is stylishly telling the club that they are bone tired in the article on sky. www1.skysports.com/football/news/11668/8450686/Chelsea-s-Gary-Cahill-fears-knock-on-effect-of-FA-Cup-draw-with-Brentford
Desmondadonis
and yet no additions have been made to address the depth situation...I'm thinking the board must know something we dont know right now...ominous
JohnnyOz
or maybe Roman just dislikes Benitez just as much as most fans do and refuses to back him financially...Either way it looks like we may be in for a very nervous close to the season
JohnnyOz
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/benitez-admits-he-doesnt-expect-to-get-money-from-abramovich-3369585.html
JohnnyOz
I think the board should just do what they need to do for the love of the club and what we are aiming to achieve, if we go about making intelligent signings then we can manage our resources. If we pay the money kdb was loaned out for to werder, which I think should be 1m euros, if we pay werder for 1.5m, atleast it would be a win win for us, atleast he is already in our books
Desmondadonis
@ Des you ask for FACTS. I am too civil**** to be throwing cheap jibe on anyone. it's very easy to blame a coach for the signing if you don't know how the business work. it's a collecting decision. Since the 2nd year of Roman reign Chelsea they have not given any coach apart from Mou that came with 5 players from Portugal any freedom of buying players. So I don't see how RAFA is going to waste any Money. This is just a peek how football transfer business around CFC work. Let me break it down. There are 4 tier of decisions making when it comes to buying players. 1: the coach 2: Technical director with the paid scouting team. 3 The CEO 4 Chairman / Owner The Coach make a recommendation for reinforcement based on the positions and types of players to DOF and DOF then check with the scouting team if there are any players that suit the coach request, DOF may make final decisions if the players are cheap to a certain amount. For any coach to have his specific (expensive) man he has to come up with a strong argument why that specific player/s he want is/are better than the cheaper alternatives. If the DOF satisfied with his argument he move the request to the CEO and so forth and so forth**** decision taken. This is the area RAFA is as good any when out there.
jollyheart Torres
re KDB - thats a good point Desmond
JohnnyOz
Whew..after reading through all these comments it is clear that Rafa is a lightning rod that has split the VC fan community right down the center..i wonder whether this is also true of the greater Chelsea FC fan community, especially those who attend games at the Bridge and on our away games. More importantly it is also germane to ask if he similarly splits opinions in the locker room because his history at Liverpool and Inter in particular indicate that he certainly did that there. That alone tells me the man needs to depart come Summer time..i think most would agree that he should not be retained beyond May..for the sake of our team. It is interesting that even Mike Emenalo who reportedly was the loudest voice who advocated for Rafa to be hired in discussions with Roman is now ominously silent regarding even getting 1-2 players for the team in this window. It does appear like the three Amigos and Roman as one are totally uninterested in trusting any monetary investment for players with Rafa. That is another very telling sign. Even RDM who Roman never wanted at least they agreed to get him Moses (Albiet after they had tried to spend far more on Hulk but finally came to their senses when Hulk began demanding more money in third party owner fees in addition to the ~38m they were willing to pay). We all know Rafa never wanted Ba..he asked for Negredo or even Villa and instead the Board went for Ba as Dannys replacement. What this tells us is that beyond being an interim manager Rafa is not trusted by anyone on the board, not trusted by the owner, not trusted by probably a majority of the fans and who knows by how many players. It is clear then that he is just here marking time till the season ends..however it does. That much seems clear to me.
GabeU
@jollyhearts, I understand ur arguement there, it is not as if rafa alone will decide which player he'll buy for us, what I am arguing against in this article and previous ones is that if he had fully utilized the players at his disposal it would be easy for him to state his case, to me I think he is deliberately using this same players over and over again to pass his points across that the squad needs refreshing, my assumption is that the board don't want to oblige him because they don't see him as a permanent choice, so my arguement is that he shot himself on the foot with that approach, if it was another manager he'll manage the players more than rafa did
Desmondadonis
Rafa said in one of his recent interviews that he had discussions with the owner and they agreed on a lot of things. I wonder what else was discussed between them, other than Rafa having a safe journey at the end of the season.. lol
Chelsea-fan
Rafa said in one of his recent interviews that he had discussions with the owner and they agreed on a lot of things. I wonder what else was discussed between them, other than Rafa having a safe journey at the end of the season.. lol
Chelsea-fan
**** smash my phone another typo. ***** it's a collective decision.******
jollyheart Torres
@Des mate, we all know the squad is thin. And whenever he try to rest players it backfire. We won't be debating it if the players that have come in have done well. it's only CFC from the top 4 teams that have 10 players that have played more than 20 games. That just confirmed how thin is the squad.
jollyheart Torres
@des,he is not deliberately using the same team,its just circumstantial
Ken4CFC
talking about squad depth is not good enough for rafa , if the objective is top 3 , then we could have crashed out of fa cup playing youngsters and i would have accepted and i sincerely dont want to see the likes of hazard cole or mata playing in the europa league , it will be disgusting . im really thorn in the benitez argument but from what i have seen , he is no better than the coach we sacked
Don capon
Ken and @jolly, I posted a link on mata, I got it from who scored, and it shows the amount of games he played and when he was subbed, if you want him and hazard's own, I'll dig it up for u, the point is u will see the games we were comfortably winning and yet he allows them to play for the whole 90 mins or atimes remove them in the 82 minute, that is where he ought to have used the likes of piazon or mikel, marin and perhaps ferriera, by now they will be a little fresh than how they are now, brb with hazard and mata's stats
Desmondadonis
soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/id/103025/juan-manuel-mata-garca?cc=5739#ui-tabs-2 soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/id/101390/eden-hazard?cc=5739#ui-tabs-2
Desmondadonis
 

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