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The English Problem?

As I prepare to head off to a weekend retreat, an ideal opportunity seeing as there is no Premier League football this weekend; I`ve a debateable subject for you.

It`s a subject that has been the topic of much discussion this week and relates to the state of English football and in particular the berating of the fact that the Premier League contains so few English-born stars.

With the England national side struggling to qualify for the World Cup, in Brazil, in 2014, I`m asking the Vital Chelsea fraternity to come up with a possible solution to why there are so few English players considered good enough for the Premier League.

Should Premier League sides be forced to field a minimum number of home grown stars?

Should Premier League clubs be limited to the number of foreign players they can have on their books?

And, finally,

What, in your opinion, brought about this demise?

Your thoughts would be most welcome.




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The Journalist

Writer: Merlin Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Friday September 6 2013

Time: 9:03AM

Your Comments

not just England merlin but those kilt wearers have suffered too since the premier and sky money has attracted big money players from all over the world.To combat this we need to adopt those germans who i believe have to have a certain percentage of home players in their teams lets be honest they usually do very well in the international tournements where as we havent had that good a team since italia 90
herefordchelsea
simple reason english players are no way near the talent of spain germany and now belgium players...if you look at those players and compare to the english one you can see the difference...no chance of english team winning any cup in the future..they are far far behind..
shlok27
Talented or not, it's hard work that matters.
zg2000fs
AVB propose idea that teams in N-Power championship consist of Chelsea Youth, Man u Youth, etc, same as Spain where they got Barcelona B and Real Madrid Castilla, it helps english player in our country youth to actually have a real experience playing in the league and we will have a better future with this rather than games where Youth vs Youth which is preety much didn't give them any real experience in english game and to be better players
chelsea44
A change as AVB requested where bigger teams are allowed B Teams in lower leagues. It would be exciting as various permutations may be implemented in terms of relegation and promotion. For instance...the could say if CfC B made the promotion places...they would save the highest ranking relegated teams from relegation as Cfc B cannot be in the EPL. That way we would have the latitude to develop players.
Gian-Franco/Luca
This question will produce varying answers depending on our nationalities.i as fan from outside england wont care who plays 4 CFC as long as chelsea is winning.i wont even care whether we field an english player.but for english fans the picture changes n they'l be concerned with english players in our team.the better they r 4 chelsea, the better their national team.
blue5
This question will produce varying answers depending on our nationalities.i as fan from outside england wont care who plays 4 CFC as long as chelsea is winning.i wont even care whether we field an english player.but for english fans the picture changes n they'l be concerned with english players in our team.the better they r 4 chelsea, the better their national team.
blue5
There are a host of factors responsible,and I had this same chat with a mate of mine some days back. You hear a lot of people say we haven't got the same talent as other countries (Germans,Spanish,Italians e.t.c) which can be true to a certain extent,but its just a tiny bit of a host of factors. As countries with lesser talents have been able to develop players with the right mentality to succeed through hard work and dedication. Poor Grass root development: We all understand that a structure has to be set and a plan has to be drawn and the grass root remains the foundation to a successful structure/building. I would understand this more as I've been in the system of coaching young lads within my community,and they grab whatever they learn and it tends to grow with them,wrong technical analysis,aids wrong development. We have no business with Stuart Pearce as the U-21 manager,never rated him as a coach to aid development. Jokingly we say a traditional English winger hugs the wings for a cross,instead of using skill,creativity and technicality to cut in when needed(wrong teachings). We say a traditional English midfielder is one who bullies his way through midfield,and has a feisty shot on his feet(wrong teachings). A traditional English Striker is a tall,well built lad, and a good header of the ball(wrong teachings). The Spanish teach their midfielders how to be calm with the ball and have the sense to be creative with the ball,or their wingers to be technical with the ball e.t.c. Football has evolved and the teachings in our grass root has to change. Media Hype: The few English talents that are able to shine bright amongst the many rocks are over hyped by the English media rather than letting them grow gradually and develop their talents. Thereby mounting pressure on their young shoulders and weighing them down stuck at level 5,rather than ascending to higher levels enjoying their game and growing in status. The influx of players overseas into the EPL: Due to the competitive nature of the league,top EPL clubs have to keep in touch with each other by buying top talent from other countries or buying established players,rather than developing one. I can go on and on about different factors...
nelyvanile
I believe it starts with setting a rule that forces ppl to adapt...forget "homegrown" talent, make it compulsory for every team to field @least 3 English players for every starting 11 in every EPL team
@Mq
^^^and every 25man team must have a striker, midfielder, defender and goalie all of English nationality....of which @least 3 must start every EPL game....EPL games only, in Europe the club decides who plays
@Mq
Introducing the B teams in League 2 and allowing them to get promoted is one great way to increase the talents....Right now, no top EPL clubs have good development plan for youngsters other than loan option...And if they try to introduce rules for fielding certain english players on field, then it will just inflate the value of english players not their quality...you will see more 30m values carrol rather than 23m valued Mata
Blu_run
^^^^^either way English football benefits BLU_RUN because for all the "development" and B-teams talk, if the club are not obliged to field the player they simply wont unless they obliged to
@Mq
if every club has to be forced to field an English player they will be faced with 2 options, either they buy the talent (at the high prices) or they develop their own...I don't see Spain cry about "high prices" yet their league is loaded with Spanish talent, much like Bundesliga too, so it just needs desire and patriotism, which either comes voluntarily or is forced on ppl
@Mq
Top post @nely, but wait a sec, have you guys ever thought of DNA in all these? Could well be a factor too seeing as football has since evolved way beyond what was traditionally acceptable and "good enough" before. Can England produce a modern Paul Gascoigne, Paul Scholes, Owen Hagreaves or a Wayne Rooney anymore, as it seems they're too many Steven Gerrards, Gareth Barry and Frank Lampards?? Imagine you can actually count with one hand just a very few lot with considerable guile and technique like Joe Cole, Theo Walcott, and...who else?? Michael Owen? So, maybe it's just not possible to teach, say, a bona fide English midfielder some techniques that come "naturally" for an average Spaniard, German, Dutch, Belgian, Brazilian or Argentine? ...because for all of USA's, China, India and Austrialia's numerical strengths and wealth, for instance, one hardly sees them produce those rare gems we all crave for and rave about. So it might well be a question of DNA, natural talent, motivation and hardwork...as I know how lazy some of my affluent English friends can be when it comes to anything sports, strenous work, and the like. But hey, this problem isn't peculiar to England, is it? Wouldn't France [or don't they] have the same problem if not for the influx of some very gifted immigrant Africans there papering over their cracks?? The Zidanes, Desailly, Viera, Makalele, Thuram, Abidal and the Benzemas of the Les Bleus?!? Just saying. Lol ;)
HGH Magic
its not just english players but english managers also. Both don't have much value abroad. A very select few of english managers/players will be offered contracts by top teams in Europe. This bakes a question if wether british system is up to the mark or not with regards to home grown talent. I think british football association needs to sit with top managers, like Mourinho, Sir Alex, Wenger etc and try to figure out what actually is the problem, come up with a targeted plan and then take necessary measures. Something must be done, because it is disappointing to see the best league in the world filled with foreigners and hardly any local talent worth mentioning. I was just thinking if i were to sign a marquee player, who would i sign, and i couldnt think of many names. This problem should no arise where so many world's best come and train and then display their talents on a weekly basis.
Chelsea-fan
You have a very good point HGH...No doubt some countries over the years have been able to produce top talent that have dominated the world of football. It could as well be DNA related,or a phase in football where a certain generation of a country become blessed with a host of talent beyond management. You can compare the brazilian side of the 90's to the current bunch,or the French side of the late 90's/early 2000 to the current bunch,e.t.c...You can as well say the Spanish side are enjoying the influx of a talented generation,or the current German side. We also cannot rule out a well thought out structure,like the Spanish and the German side. We can also notice an influx of talent in the current Belgian side...could truly be DNA in relation to a well thought out structure/plan. Its also important to note that some players are born gifted alas the Messi's,while some are not as talented and improve themselves technically through hardwork,and dedication alas the Lampards.
nelyvanile
You have a very good point HGH...No doubt some countries over the years have been able to produce top talent that have dominated the world of football. It could as well be DNA related,or a phase in football where a certain generation of a country become blessed with a host of talent beyond management. You can compare the brazilian side of the 90's to the current bunch,or the French side of the late 90's/early 2000 to the current bunch,e.t.c...You can as well say the Spanish side are enjoying the influx of a talented generation,or the current German side. We also cannot rule out a well thought out structure,like the Spanish and the German side. We can also notice an influx of talent in the current Belgian side...could truly be DNA in relation to a well thought out structure/plan. Its also important to note that some players are born gifted alas the Messi's,while some are not as talented and improve themselves technically through hardwork,and dedication alas the Lampards.
nelyvanile
Absolutely Nely...must be a combination of these factors we've enumerated. I can't see beyond them.
HGH Magic
Top post nely, the truth is the structure of the EPL is not up to par, the rules and regulation are only there to promote money and not help with improving the standard and level of players produced, what AVB proposed would do wonders if the top 7 teams in the league have B sides in the league one and gain promotion, look at spurs side, they have some astonishing youngsters that CAN PLAY football, same with aston villa, man utd, arsenal, chelsea with the likes of brown, Jmac,bamford,lewis baker, swift and the likes, look at all this teams and u notice their core players are exceptional english talents who do well in their resppective youth leagues but sseem not to be able to make the leap and become first teamers except aston villa who produce atleast 2-3 per season if I am not mistaken and spurs adding townsend,walker,caulker from their youth ranks, the talent is there but the problem is that the league is too competitive for clubs to be patient with them
Desmondadonis
I think it is a slew of factors. A combination from DNA and just lacking the fundamentals. The DNA disadvantage can be solved if the fundamentals were even correct and the fundamentals starts with creating a style of play that can be taught through various academies and they've also has got plan various stages of development. England to me is still stuck in the same way they've played football since I have ever remembered while the Brazilians, Spanish, Germans and Italians have all emerged with new styles of play that has made them still competitive. The Dutch have maintained their style of play, but their play has been so dominant for ages and years so doesn't need much changing, but minor tweaks here and there. It is a blessing in disguise that all dominant football all emerges from the Dutch Total Football. So they have a strong platform, but England, boy!!! don't even know what they have. If they was a strong platform for all the kids to develop from, that would have at least compensated for the lack of DNA. Germany has the German 4-2-3-1; Italians have a 3-5-2, 3-4-3 or whatever; Spain has their own style of 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3; Brazil has a 4-2-2-2;4-2-3-1/4-3-2-1;4-3-3; Argentina had their diamond at once and have evolved as well. One thing very common amongst these nations is they evolve from what they originally created. Has England ever created something and have they ever evolved? This is an observation and then brings me to another question; is England even a good footballing nation? If we look at this from a historical perspective, the questions has got to be asked. If you look at Fifa's 100 which lists the best players split equally between current players and retired players, England has only 7 players on that list compared to footballing nations like Brazil, Argentina, Italy, Netherlands, France, and Germany who have players in the double digits. For a selection of the top 100 players of ALL TIME (http://footballpantheon.com/2011/09/the-100-greatest-players-of-all-time/14/), England is represented by only 3 players (from a population of 62mm) - the same amount as footballing nations such as Portugal (Population of 10mm) and only 1 better than Denmark, Scotland and North Ireland. Uruguay with a population of 3mm has produced more legends than England. So the real question is why is England even mentioned like it's very important on the international stage when in reality, it is just 2nd/3rd tier competitor. Maybe England will be represented on these lists when the likes of Gerrard, Lampard, Terry and Cole retire, but those guys will have necks cut out when the likes of Robben, RVP, Schweini, Lahm, Pirlo and co retire. We all know traditional football houses such as Brazil, Italy, Germany and Argentina will remain. I think Spain can be added to this list since they've always produced talents but have underachieved for a while and with the strong structure in place they have now and the winning mentality of the players being developed by the mere affiliations with Real and Barcelona, they have become a footballing powerhouse. After Xavi & Iniesta, there is still Mata, Fabregas, Silva and Cazorla and after those guys there is still Isco aka "Sisqo", Thiago and Illaramendi. It is like a factory of talent like Samsung with products lined up in pocket to last till at least 2023. If you think about it from economic perspective as well, half of the clubs in Europe are looking to make their big investments in foreign talent and not England. England has got a big problem. They don't have the talent; not the structure and not the mentality. They are being hyped up like the Dallas Cowboys who have won 1 playoff game in 16 years. But even the Cowboys have the talent, but a bunch of nonsense make them a circus town. England have got to go back to the drawing Board like Ford Motors and General Motors did in 2008 and found a way to develop better products for their own citizens to even use talkless of exports. They've got to go back to the basics and develop players that even the premier league clubs can use talkless of competition on the international stage.
KAKUfrank
I disagree with those saying its talent. If today, I added Walcott, Ashley Young, Richards and Smalling or Cahill to the Nigerian team they would probably be realistic contenders to reach the WC semis. And that’s with Mikel, Moses and Omeruo. If I added Sturridge, Parker and Welbeck to Ghana again they would be realistic WC semi-final contenders. On the other hand if I tried to roll both Ghana and Nigerian players into the England squad not a single one of them would make it! I could make a team out of Webeck, Rodwell, Richards, Smalling, Cahill, Baines, Raheem Sterling, Aaron Lennon, Darren Bent, Phil Jones, Scott Parker, Sturridge, Zaha all of whom are subs/fringe players for England…call them the US team and they would probably be out there competing against Spain, German and Brazil for honors in every competition.
OCBlues
The English problem? Too many rugby fans masquerading as football coaches.
foreign_viewer
Ghana are better than the US men's team. What are you talking about?!
foreign_viewer
Lmao foreign_v, I'm still at a loss as to what OCBlues was "really" trying to say ;)
HGH Magic
Meanwhile England are really looking good and cruising against Moldova, 4-0 as I type, with Lambert putting up a man-of-the-match performance so far - scoring 1 and assisting both Welbeck goals. Gerrard opened scoring via a Lampard assist. With all due respect though, Moldova may well be Europe's Tahiti ;)
HGH Magic
As a medical scientist, I think the DNA argument is absolute rubbish- Spain went 60 years between winning world cups and people have lauded their national team (over the last 6 or 7 years) as one of the best in history. Their genetic makeup didn't suddenly change. Nor have we seen Ghana/Nigeria/Côte d’Ivoire dominate at the national stage in the same way that, for example, Kenyan marathon runners dominate their sport. The requirements for success in football are multi-faceted, so a simplistic argument about genetics doesn't help anyone.
rslack
Instead of talking about the number of foreign players starting in the PL and Championship (ala Greg Dyke), or suggesting a silver bullet like mandatory home grown quotas, we should probably try and look at the underlying factors which have created the status quo. Arsene Wenger may have said it best, "I have only been here since 1996 but between 1966 (when England won the World Cup) and 1996 you had 30 years without foreign players and you still didn’t win anything". Current TV revenue deals indicate that the standard of the Premier League is second to none- which might be arguable, but given the dominance of PL teams in European competition over the last decade there is something to that argument (not just winning the CL, but consistently having two or more teams in the knockout stages and beyond). The truth is that things like the home-grown rules, and/or having a domestic NT player in squad, has made English players more expensive than their foreign counterparts. As such, the PL and Championship sides are happy to employ a more cost effective squad and try to receive a financial windfall by gaining promotion (or avoiding relegation). Perhaps the discrepancy in funding between leagues in England (and even CL clubs vs Europa vs nothing teams) is a key factor in all of this. Not that anyone would want their club to sacrifice income in the new era of FFP, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.
rslack
English Coaches and fans are the problem... the talents are there but they are not properly nurtured and developed... plus no enough exposure for the young talents...England is not doing too bad in youth competitions.... an English team won the NextGen (in fact 3 English teams got to the semis), England has won a couple of World and/or European youth tournaments... This indicates that the talents are there... but what happens to these young talents??? Mandating English teams to regularly play certain number of English young talents will be a step in the right direction... it will help to develop and build confidence in more young English players and also give them the needed exposure...Top English clubs like Chelsea, Manutd and Arsenal are not helping matters... Take for instance, we sold Sturridge and bought Ba.. if not for Liverpool maybe Sturridge's talent will be wasting away somewhere now with little or no top exposure... we replaced sturridge with Ba, ask yourself, has Ba or even Torres made any much difference in out team or done anything better than Sturridge?... Ask yourself, how much better is MVG or Draxler than Chalobah and Lewis Baker? the difference is that they were given the opportunity to grow and blossom by clubs in their respective countries... English fans will be more patient with young talents like Oscar, Hazard, Lamela, etc.. than they will with English young talents like Wilshere, Chamberlain, Walcott, Sturridge, etc... Imagine some English fans calling Rooney overrated and saying Lewandowski is better than him.... Also, there is a need for more English coaches to go to other countries for further exposure.... they shouldn't just remain in England. Lastly, English players always tend to play only in England, it's not too good... time to be more adventurous... Apart from McManaman, Michael Owen, Hargreaves and Beckham, I don't think I know of any other top English footballer who played outside of England...
Latunvic
My apologises in advance for this long comment... You guys hav all given various good reasons for england's present debicle.. For me, it starts with the FA, how much do they want england too successed? Just qualify and make the 2nd round in brazil..? The target should be realistic but also better than dat.. Media hype on the young talents is coming off negatively as earlier stated by one of u guys.. These boys get fast fwd into the senior team too quickly.. Even if they r already in the 1st teams of there clubs.. Let them learn to play and win as a team.. Be it U17, U19 or U21. Take 2006 WC, sorry but wat the F*** was walcott doing in dat team..? Defoe shuld hav made the squad... At youth level, england dont take U17 n U20 WC seriously as sum orda countries do.. Imagine an england team wit the likes of saville, kane, baker, chalobah, bamford, mcearchan, swift, zaha, caroll, fryers, ibe, etc actually representing england come U20 this year.. england could win. But no it wont happen for me dat is a major prob for the national side.. Also is it me or the starting XI hardly has any player outside the top 6,7 epl clubs.. Frm the moldova game only lambert made it.. Are the no good or decent enuff players in the orda 13 teams ??? GOD save the Queen & us..
anasewhiz
 

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