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Ozil vs Robben

I have read with disgust some of the opinions of some commenters here on VC in the last few weeks regarding the situation with Mata, david Luiz , Cesar Aspiliceuta etc that have had limited minutes thus far this season.

Let me be clear I am one of the greatest admirers of Mata not just as a player but as a person. I have been on record when many were drooling over hazard and Oscar as describing Mata as the closet thing to the Chelsea player I revere most; the Siciilan genius Gian Franco Zola. I say all this because like many I love Mata but as far as club footie my allegiance is first and foremost to Chelsea FC and this exceeds my affinity for Mata, Jose or any other person within the Chelsea hierarchy including Roman himself. The club existed before any of these persons and will God willing continue to exist after each and everyone of these persons move on.

It is one thing to be disappointed that a player one likes is not seeing as much time on the pitch as you would like but is another thing entirely to say and write some of the errant nonsense I have been reading on VC recently. Interestingly a few of the exact same childish persons who clearly only started following Chelsea in the recent Roman era peddle the exact same ridiculous comments on other Chelsea blogs I visit. For so called fans of this club to decide that the best way for players to respond if they are not picked to play for a few matches is to hand in transfer requests in the winter window and to then go on foul mouthed tirades abusing the current manager and asking for his sack (and this after the team just won a BPL match too) is just baffling. With "fans" like this who needs enemies for the club? This is the sort of childish, immature behavior that has earned Chelsea fans a reputation of being "plastic" fair weather "fans" who have no real actual affiliation to the club but are merely seekers of glory in the now. It is just embarrassing honestly.

Fortunately Mata himself has shown way more maturity and class than some commenters here. I wont rehearse the reasons behind the limited time that some of these players have had on the pitch so far this season. Jose has been quite explicit explaining why so as to dispel the fiction and lies that much of the media peddle on these matters (media outlets that have never liked us anyway and so why fans would believe these rags rather than the words of Jose himself beats me). People may disagree with Jose`s reasons for his actions but I daresay that none of us have half the experience the guy has, none of us have even managed one top tier footie team, none of us has his neck on the line if and when mistakes are made or the project fails, none of us has his reputation on the line. None of us has been tasked by Roman to change the style of play of our team with players he has largely inherited, he does.

Furthermore in case guys saying some of these things are in a trance the league season is just 5 games old!!! At least for mata and Luiz both have had opportunities to start so far this season and neither has been stellar. That is the honest truth. It is interesting that there is no such outcry that players like Ba, Cesar, Essien etc have not seen as any significant pitch time either. This makes it clear that all this angst is personality driven rather than genuine concern for the good of the team.

I mention Ozil and Robben above because both players were faced with situations similar to this where their regular starting positions were questioned by their managers. Heynckes demanded that Robben needed to be a more complete player and contribute on both sides of the ball. Till he got with the program Tony Kroos was preferred despite the preceeding Bayern legend of the Robery connection. Robben learnt his lesson and rather than pout or hand in a transfer request, rather than take the easy way out and transfer elsewhere he decided to buckle down and the moment Kroos got injured and Robben had another chance he played like a man possessed tracking back, tackling, working like a maniac of the ball. He did it all and in the latter half of Bayern`s season last year he was arguably their best and most influential player. He answered Heynckes on the pitch and his evolution as a player during that period ensured that even with the arrival of Pep his place in the side was secure.

This same sort of scenario arose with the goal keeping situation at Real. Jose made a decision based on who was performing best at training; who was doing all the things he wanted and it was Diego Lopez. Rather than knuckling down and working harder Casillas used the media to curry for favor and try to get his spot back by media circus rather than hard work. He allowed the lies to be peddled suggesting it was all a personal vendetta. Well Ancelloti came and saw exactly the same thing and made the same decision..that Diego Lopez was the better keeper on current form (not on history or legendary status). Casillas has continued to pout and use the media to fight his battle rather than knuckling down and doing the hard work required to win his way back into the side.

Mesut Ozil is another contemporary example. The arrival of Isco to the Real side meant more competition for starting spots. Dimaria and Ozil were the persons who were at risk and would need to work harder to earn their places especially as Isco is Spanish and seen as the next big thing in Spain. Di maria was vocal in saying he was going no-where and wanted to fight for his place at Real. He was willing to work extra hard to earn and secure his place and he had Ronaldo even lobby hard to insist on his retention. Ozil on the other hand decided to take the easy way out, rather than stay and compete, rather than work harder where the lights are brightest he decided it was better to go to a place where his starting spot was guaranteed with minimal efforts hence his move to the gunners so he could ultimately be sure of his spot on the Mannscraft side. It was his choice but time will tell if it was the right one.

Mata and others who are presently having limited minutes on our side are not in the dark about what Jose expects of them. For all his faults few people who actually know the man would say he is duplicitous. He is on the other hand said by both friends and detractors to be very direct and clear with his players as to his expectations. On Tuesday Mata and others who have had limited minutes thus far will have a chance against diminished quality opposition in Swindon town to make their case on the field of play. I expect them as professionals who love this club and who have a point to prove (rather than being crybabies and pouting kids like some posters on this forum) to put on a performance to remember. To totally and thoroughly dominate Swindon. To put on a performance that showcases their quality and ability and so make Jose`s team picking process for bigger games to be even more difficult than it is now. That is the way it is in the biggest clubs worldwide and is the beauty and pain of having adequate squad depth.

I feel Mata and others like Cesar and Luiz will make their claims to starting places as the season progresses but if they ultimately decide to take the route of Ozil or Casillas it wont be the end of Chelsea FC. There are always other players that can be brought in willing to work hard and compete for their place on the squad and understand the dynamics that exist in top squads with considerable squad depth. The club must come first..no player or personality , no manager or agenda is more important than the big picture of what is best for the team. I hope those here whose vision of Chelsea revolves around one player or person would either get their priorities right or simply move on with said player(s) or personalities when and if they decide to go elsewhere. What is transpiring with Spurs since they sold Bale should be instructive; no one player is bigger than the team, no one player is indispensable..it is a team sport first and foremost. The commonality on this forum should a first and pre-eminent love for Chelsea FC. KTBFFH.




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The Journalist

Writer: GabeU Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Sunday September 22 2013

Time: 9:22PM

Your Comments

you bought perezs' stories??? very surprising. Ozil chose to follow a new managers vision this doesn't mean he refused to fight for his place. By your argument almost any player who leaves a club can be accused of the same weakness. It is very simple, perez messed up and he is trying to save face and some idiots are buying the story (you included apparently) your own manager praised him highly and picked him constantly then refused to loan arsenal a player because Ozil was coming in all sign point to one single fact. Madrid messed up in letting him go not the other way round. When a couple breaks up if you ever want to know who has 'lost out' simply listen to how they talk about their ex... madrid is the boyfriend telling everyone how much of a ***** his ex girlfriend is because he wants to save face
510
oh and in 2 EPL appearances in his debut season he has an 88% passing percentage, 1 MOM and 3 assists (more than anyone else has managed in 5 games)
510
Nice one @Gabeu. I am with you, that team is above all. I totally agree with the Robben example. Ozil situation is more complicated, it usually is when Madrid are involved. Perez will say things to be on the safer side. Ozil sale was a controversial one. Arsenal are reaping the benefits now. .............
syed230183_chelseafc
S10 you are clearly a gunners fan. i dont do insults so i wont respond to your calling me an idiot. If you were better informed you would realize that perez is not the only source to state clearly why Ozil left. Ancelloti himself and several of Ozils former team mates at Real have stated the same. Obviously Ozil would not admit to this, he is no dope..how could he admit to that an retain any respect with his new team? The point of this article if you actually read it was not in any way to suggest that Ozil is not a top quality player..he is but to suggest he joined the gunners because of a new managers vision is laughable. The reason for his move is two names; Bale and Isco, case closed. The article anyways was not for your consumption. Enjoy the time of your team being presently on the top of the BPL but be warned this is a marathon not sprint.
GabeU
Hats off to this article!!!Absolutely spot on!!!!
Hazard11
GabeU - I don't know if I can agree with you on this one, although your articles are 99% dead on. I think Jose is gambling on Oscar too much. It would be one thing to say that Mata is having a bad season, or that Chelsea plays best without Mata - but the truth is, Chelsea has played best with Mata in the last two seasons. Just because he can be outmuscled from the ball, or is average at defending - his assists and goals more than justifies his presence. How do you justify taking away your best player out when the team is not gelling at all. I think all it does is create confusion and instability among the other players. It is no coincidence that Hazard has struggled in the last few games without Mata. I would understand it if we are playing solid, superb footie without him - but we are disjointed and without character, even worse than last season now that we are without him.
ddrogba
Sweet, sumptuous and lovely article.
don delsy
www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2013/09/04/4236071/why-real-madrid-had-to-sell-mesut-ozil espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1551302/zinedine-zidane-mesut-ozil-left-real-madrid-lack-fight?cc=5739 Its very possible ozil left madrid because of isco and bale even ozil claimed madrid lost faith in him,why would he say that if not because madrid went ahead to sign Isco and Bale which means more competition for places and from the first link above ancelloti would have preferred isco to ozil because of isco's ability to defend better(In quote ancellotti said "isco and ozil needs to learn how to defend,we need quality players and they must work defensively")...ozil knew all these and chose to leave instead of knuckle down and work harder on his defensive ability...Madrid might be wrong but for ozil to say madrid lost faith in him then it all points out to one thing "the arrival of bale and isco"
Hazard11
Excellent article once again Gabe. Some morons here even wrote that Mourinho has a vendetta against Spanish players . It worries me that people believed the load of tosh some pundits like Jamie Redknapp was spewing out that there is some thing sinister behind the exclusion of Mata from the team rahterbthan believing thatthe problem lies in wwhat the coach sees in training and what he wants the player to do on the pitch. The likes of hazard in recent games are developing their defensive side of the game while Mata is not. It is now normal to see hazard tracking back to support Ashley Cole than for you to see Mata doing the same thing. Two players in the tea right now that needs to work on their defensive game now is Mata and De by rune and none of them has played. So where is favoritism? Clearly Mourinho wants these two players to develop something they lack and as issue out almost the same warming to both players and I expect them to knuckle down and show him that the deserve to be in t squad. I wish people will just utilize some of their common sense that is not too common anyway and see the bigger picture. He has played 5 EPL games won 3, lost 1, drew 1 and people are already going apes hit as if he has lost the EPL already. What the FECK
Dwonder
Ozils assist and goals more than justified his presence at madrid too,but it was carlo that came out in one of his press conferences to say ozil and isco needs to learn how to defend...Carlo Ancelloti is another top manager who is also pointing out that a number 10 needs work defensively,we aren't managers and we have to agree sometimes that these men knows better than we do...I am not happy that mata isn't playing but if he has to work on some parts of his game to reclaim the number 10 position,then fine! And I hope he adapts quickly because we really need him...
Hazard11
@DDrogba..i understand you point and for the record i believe Mata is our best no 10..i think he is way better at providing for our forwards to score as well as actually scoring consistently himself than Hazard or Oscar. The point though is that thus far when he has started this season or been subbed on the old mata we know has not shown up thus far and that has made his other deficiencies more apparent. While i think Mata is our best no 10 i have no doubt that Oscar is the most complete player of the three right now. I am certain that Jose does not expect mata to ever be a defensive juggernaut..that is never going to happen but he does demand and expect that he be more committed to the cause of the team when we dont have the ball and are on the defensive. I saw a very telling slow mo analysis of the comedy of errors that led to the goal we conceded against Everton..in it you see Mata while the rest of the team was defending standing watching the play on the right flank, (doing absolutely nothing) from which Jelavic ultimately headed the ball back for Naismith to score. Sure it is not his primary duty to defend but it was a very telling picture and it is an area that Mata must improve and only he can do this, no one else can do it for him.
GabeU
Mata is not a kid anymore who will easily learn new things at this stage of his career,he doesn't suit the style mourinho wants, and i am not sure he can adapt his game to what mou wants,don't kid yourselves there is nothing mata will do to get into his plans, jose has made his decision and he will stick by it,mata we spend more time in the bench he will only play the domestic cups or when oscar needs to rest..you people should know mourinho better by now.
oscarr
Mata is not a kid anymore who will easily learn new things at this stage of his career,he doesn't suit the style mourinho wants, and i am not sure he can adapt his game to what mou wants,don't kid yourselves there is nothing mata will do to get into his plans, jose has made his decision and he will stick by it,mata we spend more time in the bench he will only play the domestic cups or when oscar needs to rest..you people should know mourinho better by now.
oscarr
Mata is not a kid anymore who will easily learn new things at this stage of his career,he doesn't suit the style mourinho wants, and i am not sure he can adapt his game to what mou wants,don't kid yourselves there is nothing mata will do to get into his plans, jose has made his decision and he will stick by it,mata we spend more time in the bench he will only play the domestic cups or when oscar needs to rest..you people should know mourinho better by now.
oscarr
Mata is not a kid anymore who will easily learn new things at this stage of his career,he doesn't suit the style mourinho wants, and i am not sure he can adapt his game to what mou wants,don't kid yourselves there is nothing mata will do to get into his plans, jose has made his decision and he will stick by it,mata we spend more time in the bench he will only play the domestic cups or when oscar needs to rest..you people should know mourinho better by now.
oscarr
I'm expecting the "mata must play" bandwagon to have spoilt this thread by tomorrow's morning. Nothing good comes out of them, all they know is how to talk rubbish. Even ancellotti (the holy one) believes in no 10s knowing how to contribute defensively. Robben, ribery, iniesta, xavi (all masters at what they do) don't stand by when their team don't have the ball, they contribute by defending. Even drogba (whose job was to score goals) defended for us. Rooney, van persie, mandzukic, .... All this great players whose job are to score goals, contributes to the team defensively,hell, even giroud was criticised for being a lazy striker last season but he has improved that aspect and is certainly better. I love mata so much but he has to improve those aspects of his game before he starts playing regularly. Simple as that. Interesting to see what he writes on his blog tomorrow, hopefully he won't stir up any controversy.
don delsy
Thank you so much uncle Gabue,you have made my day,i hope those plastic fans who are making other fans calling us plastics read this and use their brain to comment rather than abusing our manager.if you want to be a chelsea fan,be a fan with ur heart and stop being a breakable fans
Lanrryb64
"Mata is not a kid anymore who will easily learn new things at this stage of his career,he doesn't suit the style mourinho wants, and i am not sure he can adapt his game to what mou wants" robben at the age of 31 (I stand to be corrected) adapted his game to contribute his own quota defensively. Mata is just 25, so he can do much more than that. Lame excuses. Nuff said.
don delsy
Sorry for the mistake, just found out robben was 29. Got to sleep now.
don delsy
Sorry for the mistake guys, just found out robben was 29. Got to sleep now.
don delsy
Thank you so much uncle Gabue,you have made my day,i hope those plastic fans who are making other fans calling us plastics read this and use their brain to comment rather than abusing our manager.if you want to be a chelsea fan,be a fan with ur heart and stop being a breakable fans.......
Lanrryb64
Thank you so much uncle Gabue,you have made my day,i hope those plastic fans who are making other fans calling us plastics read this and use their brain to comment rather than abusing our manager.if you want to be a chelsea fan,be a fan with ur heart and stop being a breakable fans..........
Lanrryb64
Thank you so much uncle Gabue,you have made my day,i hope those plastic fans who are making other fans calling us plastics read this and use their brain to comment rather than abusing our manager.if you want to be a chelsea fan,be a fan with ur heart and stop being a breakable fans..........
Lanrryb64
And for u fickle fans info, u guys should go check out the man utd forum for the post match reaction to their humbling by city, that's a true example of what are expected of "TRUE" fans; Giving constructive criticisms 'only' to improve the team.
don delsy
If you where not clueless you will know that mata and robben are totally different players,robben is very strong whose greatest asset is his speed, while mata lacks power and speed,he play with his 'brain' more, high tempo and high pressing footy requires lots of energy, which mata doesn't posses..are we clear now mr 'metal fan'?.
oscarr
So u know mata doesn't have lots of energy to play the high tempo and high pressing game we actually require of our no 10? Yet u go on to say he should start playing simply because he plays with his brain. Who doesn't? *shakes head in digust*
don delsy
@GabeU. Valid points - but has Mata "underperformed" this season because he has not been given enough playing time or because he is deficient? We know what Mata is capable of, and he has been our MOST CONSISTENT player in the last two seasons (usurping Lampard from the prior role). He has not been allowed to played consistently with the team, and when he does start - it is only for 60 min. I don't really buy Jose's argument that Mata is not good enough this season when he hasn't been allowed to express his talent the same way as prior seasons. My original point remains - I would not be annoyed if Chelsea was flying high with Oscar as our No. 10. However, we look disjointed, uninventive - and I think it is because we are missing the cog to our wheel.
ddrogba
Too many drum heads in here,anyway a nice article @gabe. time to sleep now,can't debate with r******.
oscarr
Too many drum heads in here,anyway a nice article @gabe. time to sleep now,can't debate with r******.
oscarr
A lot has been made regarding Mata's defensive inadequacies. And granted, he is no Yaya Toure, but that is what our pivot is there for, to protect the back four. Mata should be free to link up with our striker in counterattack. If our pivot is deficient (especially with Lampard playing the full 120 min against Munich), then of course you would need Mata to track back. If we had a proper defensive midfielder - one of which we have all been clamoring our club to invest instead of the unnecessary buy Willian, then we would have appropriate defensive cover.
ddrogba
Someone is finally out-thought, resorts to insults and jets out in frustration. Speaks so well of u. Nite mate.
don delsy
Avb on mceachran:josh is a player whose strenght is in his 'brain'.
oscarr
Good article. Thank you.
zg2000fs
How can anyone here seriously say that "goals and assists justify their presence"? (when speaking of any player, really) No, that is not true. Not unless your team has won in ALL competitions in the season previous, is that argument valid. When you are re-structuring a team, with a new vision - a winning vision - that argument doesn't cut it. A team needs to be grounded, stable, CONSISTENT, and then - and only then - do the "goals and assists justify their presence". I'm a die hard blues fan. I love this squad, but I do not love their current form, nor their recent performances. They win some matches, but their wins are not as convincing as say, an in-form Manchester City. (the Manchester Derby today told a tale) If I see our squad winning with the same ruthless ambition that Man City did today, then I say your squad changes are just tinkering. Until then, hell yes I trust this manager. Even if it seems to step on toes, or hurts some feelings. This man is competitive. He's cunning. And he's damn sharp. Even if it takes a couple of seasons, and we have to offload GOOD players who don't fit his strategy, that will just have to be the way it is. I'm an optimistic person. I really believe that deep down, Jose is applying a little "tough love", and will transform Mata into a truly stellar player, playing in a very formiddable system, this season. maybe that's just me being overly idealistic, but I don't believe this man (Mourinho) is wasteful. He has motivated world class players to new levels of greatness. Let him work. Criticize at the end of the season, if it's justified. I hate the way this team has played the last few season. I sincerely hope it improves, and we start to look convincing, rather than lucky. Sorry, fellow blues. That's the straight up truth.
Solid7
Ddrogba - what you say is of limited truth. Any squad that has fully rounded players - including a striker with defensive qualities - is far more likely to dominate possession, and limit opposing opportunities. We have attacking quality in the backfield, and it needs to be balanced with defensive quality in the front line. Sorry, but I agree with Mourinho on this one. Screw the pivot. Make every man work. It's a lot easier to make up ground on a ball won in the scoring half, than the defensive half. It's a lot easier to break when the opposition is transitioning to attack. It's a simple numbers game. More defensive quality on the front line = fewer yards played back. (less ground to cover) Seems pretty simple to me.
Solid7
When Mourinho has it in for a player, there's not point even trying. Mata, Luiz, Moses, Lukaku, Marin, Josh etc are done for. The youth academy may as well be shut down. This is how I see things.
foreign_viewer
"When Mourinho has it in for a player, there's not point even trying." One would hope that the manager is able to see things from a different perspective than the fan in the stands. (on account of that training rubbish, and personal interaction, and spending like 1/2 of his time with players we never even meet) Otherwise, why aren't they paying us for these jewels of wisdom that we procure? I mean they're right there on the television, right? Nothing more than meets the eye, I suppose?
Solid7
@GabeU, I do agree with some of your points in this article, especially that calling for the sack of Mourinho at this point is rather premature... I don't agree with the idea of benching Mata, I believe we need him and in fact need him to get to top form as soon as possible... but if Mourinho believes Mata is not needed in his first XI, well, that's his call, all we can do is see how it goes and hope it goes well for us.... So far, I don't think we've been playing well without him, I think our attack is missing his deft touches and intelligence. I don't agree that fans calls for Mata is based on bias or personal interest in him... NO! rather, I believe it's because Mata has earned that respect and value over the past 2 seasons and it would be very plastic of us as fans if no one is asking questions about Mata or showing strong support for him... I understand all the point on tactics and defensive stuffs... but yet, it will be unreal to expect fans to just keep quiet and not demand for Mata or show him how much he's appreciated. I was watching ChelseaTV yesterday and even Jason Cundy said Mata is an extremely valuable player for Chelsea and that the team is missing him... The sooner we get him doing what he does best for Chelsea, the better it is for us.... I don't think such reactions and comments are borne out of bias or mere personal interest in Mata.... NO... it's because Chelsea fans see him as our best creative player and believe we need him... Not every Chelsea fan or football fan believe in the "defensive theory" as enough reason to bench Mata and that's why it's been a much debated issue... The debate is going to continue till end of season and it's because of Mata's quality as a player and the quality he has added to our attack in the past 2 seasons... I think most fans calling for Mata are doing so because they want the best for the club and believe Mata is too good to be benched.... and I believe the call will reduce if we keep doing well without him.... I think it's just natural for fans to voice their support not just for Mata, but also for the quality he as shown as a Chelsea player over the years...
Latunvic
GabeU, your "sources" regarding Ozil's move are all Real Madrid management's views - Perez and Ancelotti cheifly. What else do you expect them to say? You are wrong when you say Real Madrid players said the same things as the management. They did not. There are clear quotes from Ronaldo, Khedira, Ramos and even Isco about their utter surprise and irritation that Ozil was allowed to go. And thats not to quote independent commentators who felt it was folly for Madrid to let Ozil go in the long term. Coming to the primary reason why Ozil was allowed to go - One angle you miss out entirely is the financial aspect. Even Real Madrid need to balance their books. Their agenda in the transfer market this time around was to buy another good but overpriced player and call him a galactico (Bale), buy a spanish core from the outside in the year before the world cup AND very importantly to tie Cristiano Ronaldo on a mega money long term contract. Considering the huge financial outlay that entailed, players had to be sold. Higuain has a fantastic goal strike rate but was sold as Benzema didnt find takers because of the underage prostitute case in France. Ozil was sold to balance their books as he was one of Madrid's most bankabale players. Any other reason is biased and your Ozil argument was one sided for that reason.
Deltaforce
I have read a few comments here admitting that perhaps Rafa is right that Chelsea fans are plastic.... I find this a bit funny and weird! .... Are we now all of a sudden accepting that Rafa is right after all... I don't want to start discussing how weird and ridiculous this sound.... can we please use other means to support our arguments..... saying Rafa is now right in order to support our arguments doesn't sound right to me...
Latunvic
It is a win win situation for us while Oscar justifies the manager's confidence in him (with 2goals so far in epl ) we will also hav a very serious mata coming back to claim his spot. Jose is nt stupid
bismark
i agree that no player or manager is bigger than the club..chelsea comes first..but when it comes to player like lamps and jose why i see bias comment here...people say club comes first before any player but when it comes to lamps i see more of a bias comment as if he is bigger than the club the same goes for mou also...when it comes to certain player and manager the tune of no player or manager bigger than the club changes here....everyplayer and manager should be treated as same but that stuff doesnt happen here..
shlok27
@ latunvic i am in no way opposed to fans expressing concerns, disappointment or apprehension about mata not playing more..that is natural and expected and i am one of those fans..ManU fans on their forums are asking why they are not seeing more of Kagawa for example..that is not the issue here..the issue is when people who say they are fans of the club openly and repeatedly ask for sedition, indiscipline, breaking the ranks and insult the manager, the club hierachy etc because their favorite player is not on the first team sheet. If you have been reading some of the comments there are "fans" saying Jose should be sacked post haste, others are actually penning down that they wish the club lose matches and underperform since their preferred player is not in the line up- simply to prove a point and to be able to say they are right and the manager is wrong..others are clamoring for the said players as a response to their perceived snub to hand in transfer requests the first chance they get..and these are responses after the side wins a match, not mention what is being said and written when the side loses. How does any of this help the club and seriously what do those sort of statements tell you about where these persons affections and true allegiance lies? There is one thing you said in your comments that i disagree with; This concept of a player ( any player) being too good to be benched. This is a very dangerous attitude and is the genesis of the Player power cartel that we have all railed against at chelsea for years. Thank goodness Mata does not have the persona of a trouble maker (he is no prima dona like some players we know) but is the consumate gentleman and professional. However we as fans need to be very careful about diefying certain players and forgetting that it is teams that win championships and titles not individuals. When we ascribe a God like status to certain players it can really get to their heads and it undermines the manager who should have the final say in team selection matters. It can also have an effect on making other team members feel undervalued and unappreciated. It is a very fine balance that must be kept and no ship works well with two captains on board. Bayern showed us last year in running rough shod over a Barca side that arguably had way more individual talent that in the final analyses a team of closely knit united players who all play for each other and for a clear set agenda set by their manager will and can outdo even the most talented group of players who are just individuals with their separate and distinct agendas. We as fans need to tread this ground very carefully and not end up creating the very thing we abhor.
GabeU
@gabeU. Completely agree that fans should NOT call for the sack of the manager only bc their favorite player is not on the field. That is just retarted. Mourihno is an accomplished manager and I hope he knows what he is doing and he is pulling a Benzema rather than a Casillas. I agree we should not idolize players. On the same token, we shouldn't idolize mourihno and blindly agree with him without question.
Ddrogba
No one is saying Mata should become a yaya toure....Defending is not all about being rigid and winning tackles,you should be able to track back, read the game so that you can intercept passes and also to cover some spaces that your opponent will look to explore when they are attacking you..Hazard doesn't win a lot of tackles but him tracking back and closing down opponents does a lot of work...Yes,to some extent Madrid needed to balance their books,but it wasn't ozil that was to be sold,Di maria was the one ear marked to leave and he came out publicly to say he wanted to fight for his spot and he was ready to show that in training,even pepe was on the verge of joining city at some point but these players chose to stay and fight,madrid was in by no means in a rush to sell ozil,they aren't a small club that needs to sell before they buy besides they had already had close to 60m euros for the sale of Higuain,callejon and others..also we might not agree that a no 10 should contribute defensively but carlo and sir alex knows the importance of this,so I hope Juan continues workin hard in training as mourinho claims he is doing already
Hazard11
^^ without the sale of ozil,madrid would have had a net spending of 99.2 m pounds, if and if man city can have a net spending of 88.2m pounds this same summer then 99.2m wouldn't cause a problem for the biggest club in the world...Ozil gave them the opportunity to balance their books but I doubt they pushed him out because they wanted to balance their books by all means...he could have stayed if he wanted to just like Di maria did..
Hazard11
i believe in mourinho.he wants to make chelsea a more complete team.mata would adapt,he is an educated proffessional and humble footballer.he knows his work rate is low and he needs to improve.even @barca messi has a good work rate.he hassles opponents.for a team to play the passing game,everyone has to press without the ball,thats just it.we are no longer a purely counter attacking team. Come on fans,lets get behind our manager. 1chelsea,1 love.
ijiomah udodirim
If we had been playing well,the mata calls wont be this much but we arent playing well and its very obvious the team needs his creative ability hence the calls for juan to be reinstated into the team in his creative role.some of us are willing to give the manager time but are not willing to give our most creative hub time to pick up instead they give lame excuses like he was injured,he is match rusty,he didnt play well when he started etc..how will he put on a stellar performance when he has just gone on to be a fringe player from a regular starter and its clear the manager has his faith somewhere else..it was said that mata is not jose kind of player and his appointment signals the end of mazacar,its all coming to fruition..and i dont see anything wrong in suggested we cash in on mata if he isnt suited to the manager's style for the sake of his career
Ken4CFC
The fans are no zombie,they talk up when they dont like what they see..we dont like what we see of our current chelsea team,we need improvements.as much as i dont buy the idea of sacking jose this early,it is naive for anyone to think its happening only here in chelsea.man u fans are also calling for moyes' head,#moyesout is trending on twitter and can only reduce when the team improves...
Ken4CFC
Lmao@latunvic,its really funny when some "wise" dudes launched ballistic missiles on rafa for calling us plastic fans and now they call thier fellow fans "plastic" meaning rafa was right after all..lol
Ken4CFC
"So the club comes first before any player or manager" that analogy does not apply to jose and lamps
Ken4CFC
Read this: www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2013/09/23/4281450/di-maria-isco-throw-down-the-gauntlet-to-bale?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter. Skip to the di maria's part and see what we are all talking about.
don delsy
Anyone who says that Jose is making us better than what we were should be a hardcore Jose fan rather than a chelsea fan...We have played some mediocre football this season, and peopple are giving excuses as team needs to gel....We will be beaten deservedly on next saturaday and '3 point lane' will become the WHL...
Blu_run
I really wonder whether are these same people who blasted Rafa who insisted that Torres gets nod for most of the matches as he is good at defending corners...that time, many told the reasoning as the worst...but now they defend Jose for benching Mata based on his defensive attributes.....For me, attackers should concentrate on attacking, while defenders are mainly responsible for defending, Midfielders should act as the transition people....
Blu_run
@blu-run, if that's how bayern played last season (For me, attackers should concentrate on attacking, while defenders are mainly responsible for defending, Midfielders should act as the transition people....), they would have won nothing. People always thing they know more than the board, coach or players, they know nothing.
don delsy
Lol Di maria didn't wait for consistent game time to prove his worth and adapt to carlo's demands..Di maria as we clearly know was behind isco and ozil in the pecking order when the season started,he showed he was ready to work and adapt by the little opportunity he was given in the first 2 games of the season and in training and that's how he moved ahead of ozil in the pecking order and ozil had to be sold,if the manager wants something from you,show it in training and the little chance you are given...
Hazard11
Blu-run - and this is where you show how much you understand football.
zg2000fs
As football evolves it is more important then ever to have players who play both ways, and play them well. If only 1 player in the team is lacking in his defensive duties, it is nowdays almost similar as to playing 11 vs 10 men, and we know who wins those most of the time. Ceteris paribus obv.
zg2000fs
We need Mata (they say) because we have been playing mediocre football... What was it we needed before Mata got benched, when we were still playing mediocre football? The answer, if we're being honest, is that we need some club stability under a single manager, for an extended period of time. You might have to take some lumps, but we all wanted Mourinho back for his vision. Now that he's back, some don't like his vision. If you want instant results, folks, you need to pick a different team. You've got this mess, it needs to be sorted. Remember, there is a club owner, also, who has his own ideas. God only knows what the interaction behind the scenes is. All I can say, is that I have to believe that everyone involved wants to get on winning ways, with consistent wins, year in, year out. A legacy. Not a series of high level flukes.
Solid7
Yeah...People talk about football evolution...But, they start bashing Luiz when he joins the attack, and his partner 'the slow one' terry couldnt cover for him....typical jose followers...the comments here doesnt change my undderstanding of the game....Mata is a offensive player and he shd attack 90% of the time, rather than defending inside the own penalty box...If that is what Jose wants, then sorry, we are going backwards and jose, his followers should revist their understanding of football
Blu_run
Jose has a big EGO and he hates spanish players....For Mata, his lack of defensive traits cost him a place in first team, then what is teh reason for Dave...I think he is much much better than Iva for RB...what is the reason for his omission other than him being a spanish....
Blu_run
"People talk about football evolution...But, they start bashing Luiz when he joins the attack, and his partner 'the slow one' terry couldnt cover for him....typical jose followers" I think you've got it wrong. A defender coming to the front line to attack risks being caught out of position. Nobody can ever be expected to cover a zone for a missing man. That violates the entire spirit of the game. (it's a numbers game, a chess match) There is a huge difference in asking a forward to track back, and asking a defender to stay put. Even at that, an attacking defender isn't such a bad thing, if he knows when to attack, and when to stay put. That is the Luiz conundrum. He is a valuable player, but tends to throw a formation into disarray with his ill-timed adventuring. I like the kid, but he needs discipline. Either that, or he needs an entire team built around his "style" of play.
Solid7
FWIW I think Jose has got it wrong regarding Mata, I mean does it really need the extreme of dropping him from the squad just to get him to do things you see missing from his game? Mata comes across as being very intelligent, couldn't Jose have told him what he wants with the expectation that he implements it in his game whilst Juan continues to create for us? I think Jose is expecting a reaction from Mata, I just hope it's not a January transfer request. I hope Mata has a blinder on Tuesday.
BlueABS
pffft! more pontificating and holier-than-thou (less-plastic-than-thou???) nonsense. it's amazing how certificates on what constitutes a fan and the entire rulebook on how fans must conduct themselves, keep getting thrown in here like god's own truth. that's myopic and small minded. just quit it and make your points to be debated one way or the other. even within a family there will be diametrically opposing views. learn to live with it without hyperventilating.
johnny come lately
@GabeU, when I said "some fans believe Mata is too good to be benched" it was with respect to the quality he has contributed to the team/attack in the past 2 seasons... of course no player is indispensable, but some players are key to teams, especially one that is best in 2 consecutive seasons.... Ancelotti for example won't get to Madrid and just immediately start benching C.Ronaldo based on some new tactics he intends to apply or based on the inference that no player is indispensable, Pelligrini won't just start benching Yaya Toure because he feels he's too defensive or too attack minded for his liking, or start benching Aguero for some tactical reason.... or Barca's new coach just start benching Messi.... I hope you get my point... Yes, no player is indispensable and no player is too good to be benched if the player in addition to his top quality has some detrimental effects on the team that outweighs his quality.... And like I said before, I am totally against the calls for Mourinho to be sacked and some other nasty comments you mentioned above.... I wouldn't want us to pay too much attention on such extreme reactions while neglecting the important intricacy, benefits and disadvantages of the decision to leave Mata out..... For me, as much as I feel it's a wrong decision, as long as we are playing well and getting good results, I'll be fine with it....
Latunvic
nothing wrong with fans sensing it's better for all concerned that mata, luiz or whoever request transfers if their worth isn't getting maximised. to be sure, nobody said anything about them leaving and abusing the club. they're too mature to do that anyway. sure jose is building a team to play in his style. and sure it is his prerogative to do so in the manner he deems fit. but it's amazing opinions here that suddenly see mata as deficient and needs to pull up his socks, when he could do no wrong over two glorious seasons. would be fair to say that without mata not sure if we'd have been in the CL this year or won the CL in 2012. suddenly he doesn't belong. and has to learn new skills? and what are we basing mata's 'precipitous' fall in form/skill/ability? a few grudging appearances? is this a case of sentence without trial? nothing's changed with mata. just our tinted glasses.
johnny come lately
Come on, now... The Champion's League win, while glorious, was not exactly a convincing win. That style of play cannot be relied upon for the future. Yes, Mata did shine in that squad. But I reiterate, it was still a squad of "not good enough". When you invest the amount of money in a squad as top of the table teams do, you expect consistent results. Mata is a great player, but you can't rely on just one player to pull you through. I keep using this word "consistency", and the lesser seen side of that concept, is that when a player like, Oscar, for instance, falls out of the line, due to injury or suspension, you want to have a backup player who can slot right in for him. Someone who can match his attributes. If he is the chosen #10, then his competition must be a close match. So, while the squad needs depth in positions to be able to win in all competitions, they also need to maintain a certain degree of continuity in the their style of play. The game should flow (or adapt) exactly the same way, whether Oscar or Mata are playing. Or Iva or Azpi. So on, so forth. For this type of thinking, I give the manager the benefit of the doubt. He's a competitive guy, and wants to win EVERYTHING. Not just one or two competitions.
Solid7
Yeah @Ken4CFC, it's just sort of weird to me that after all the noise about what Rafa said... some fans, in a bid to make a point in these Mourinho and Mata issues, can actually say that perhaps Rafa was right.... It raises some questions in my mind.... It means we are all plastic fans and no one should call the other plastic since we are all plastic.... It means those who bashed Rafa (for saying what we now agree to be right/true) and booed the team are even more plastic than others....
Latunvic
the misplaced argument of ozil is also strange. ozil is still one of the best playmakers in the world (if not the best). and he's proving it at arsenal (don't worry about the stats, we've SEEN him play). where it takes half a season for some to acclimatise, he's absolutely hit the deck running. it is ridiculous to imply that his move is a result of him not wanting to work harder. that would imply coming to possibly the toughest league in the world is just a walk in the park. in fact his work ethic will have to be raised exponentially adjusting to the rigours of a different league. professional footballers have a limitred shelf life. even a year of being underused can cost them a career. a footballer's worth is on the pitch not off it. why shouldn't he move if there's a realisation that he's not going to get enough of playing time? like someone rightly said: that means that every transfer (and there have been zillions of them since club football began) would then have to be painted with the same ridiculous brush of taking the easy way out. opinions, however ridiculous they may be, are fine, but let's not bandy them about as god's own truth.
johnny come lately
all title wins are not pretty. such is the level of competition, it would be silly to expect any given team to slice through the competition like a knife thru butter. it was a blood and guts victory and nobody can discount that. and mata was a very important part of that campaign.
johnny come lately
Title wins do come down to blood and guts. It's the end of a long, hard season, and often, a team is running on vapours. However, it was the journey that was telling. Not one single team that made it through to the finals struggled like our squad did. Then we lost the SuperCup (2X) and worked like hell just to qualify again. There are some teams who have invested heavily the way our club has, and they feature consistently in the CL finals. That's where we want to be. This player we keep debating is just one variable in a larger equation. If Mourinho really does, as some people suggest, have an axe to grind, shame on him. But I'll reiterate, I'm optimistic that he has a plan, and his plan is not to relegate Mata to a position of obscurity, but to prompt a positive reaction from him. I reserve the right to be wrong, of course...
Solid7
First they said he was injured,later he wasnt match fit,then he cant defend,afterwards he needs to adapt..i wonder what the excuse would be next
Ken4CFC
^^^I agree with @johnny come.... points that "a footballer's worth is on the pitch not off it" and also with his perspective on the Ozil move to Arsenal.... We may just see Mata's quality and career nose dive if he doesn't enough quality game time... (of course, him getting game time shouldn't be at Chelsea's expense as Chelsea comes first.... as long as we are doing fine without him, all well and good....)...
Latunvic
Good article GabeU...very well expressed as well. Talking tactics and watching the Fulham game thrice,Everton and Basel game twice,its clear what the philosophy or strategy we are trying to implement is. A meeting was held earlier in the season,and i have it on authoritative infos it included training staffs,board members,Roman,and the players. Jose and his team explained the strategy that needed to be employed and the philosophy,and stated the role every position will play for the general contribution of the team. From what I've seen from out games thus far this season,we are building the team around our No10. The No10 has a specific role he brings to the team and is responsible for the balance between attack and defence. As soon as we lose the ball,Oscar presses the DM/CM putting pressure on them,and the opposition switches to the wings,our wingers presses the full back which in turn leads to the opposition going long with the ball. It was very well utilized in the 1st half of Everton,and 2nd half of the Fulham game. Every position on the pitch has a certain role they need to play to create balance in the team. I totally understand the calls for Mata from fans,and i understand Jose's handling of the situation as well,but if you understand the philosophy of what Jose wants our No10 to implement,you'll know Oscar is hard to bench at the moment. Keep a keen eye on Oscars movement off the ball,and you'll be remarkably impressed with his on/off the ball exploits. I'm starting to realize that,our Pivot has been remarkably exposed in the past,due to a lack of balance and lack of assist defensively from the bands behind the strikers. I just got a few tapes of Dortmunds strategy for the 4-2-3-1 style and its very similar to what we are trying to achieve,attack and defend as one.
nelyvanile
Good article GabeU...very well expressed as well. Talking tactics and watching the Fulham game thrice,Everton and Basel game twice,its clear what the philosophy or strategy we are trying to implement is. A meeting was held earlier in the season,and i have it on authoritative infos it included training staffs,board members,Roman,and the players. Jose and his team explained the strategy that needed to be employed and the philosophy,and stated the role every position will play for the general contribution of the team. From what I've seen from out games thus far this season,we are building the team around our No10. The No10 has a specific role he brings to the team and is responsible for the balance between attack and defence. As soon as we lose the ball,Oscar presses the DM/CM putting pressure on them,and the opposition switches to the wings,our wingers presses the full back which in turn leads to the opposition going long with the ball. It was very well utilized in the 1st half of Everton,and 2nd half of the Fulham game. Every position on the pitch has a certain role they need to play to create balance in the team. I totally understand the calls for Mata from fans,and i understand Jose's handling of the situation as well,but if you understand the philosophy of what Jose wants our No10 to implement,you'll know Oscar is hard to bench at the moment. Keep a keen eye on Oscars movement off the ball,and you'll be remarkably impressed with his on/off the ball exploits. I'm starting to realize that,our Pivot has been remarkably exposed in the past,due to a lack of balance and lack of assist defensively from the bands behind the strikers. I just got a few tapes of Dortmunds strategy for the 4-2-3-1 style and its very similar to what we are trying to achieve,attack and defend as one.
nelyvanile
@latunvic,wellsaid mate..unfortunately they would comeback here spitting their "metal than thou" attitude all over the place
Ken4CFC
mou is telling that mata has to prove to him that he is ready to play in starting 11....why not jose use that same rule for player like lamps...what has lamps done to get place in starting 11...lamps has been playing crap this season.. Isnt lamps a defense liabality in the pivot system....i think more than mata its lamps who should be proving that he deserved in the starting 11...but he wont get that treatment why becasue he is jose old pal...so people here giving example that mata should prove himself is bull sheet...thats why i told people here are bias when its related to lamps and jose...and they are telling us to keep our sentiments towards mata aside...
shlok27
And it doesn't just apply to Mata,i watched De Bruyne durring preseason,and it looked like Jose was trying to build that role for him. Oscar must have made some solid impression in training...when he got back from the confeds. Jose has admitted he doesn't have a team yet,and I'm glad every player is working their butts off to get a start. I trust Jose's ability as a manager,as much as i trust Mata's ability,and other players in the team as well,but like everyone else,they all have to prove themselves,new philosophy in place and everyone has to work hard for the team including Jose...We as fans need to work hard as well,and try to Cheer more...its our job to make the bridge a feared ground. Carefree.
nelyvanile
Mata is a focus because his name was in the media before Mourinho even arrived. Buddy system? (in regards to Lampard) I don't know about that. Anything is possible, but I doubt any of us really get to see what happens in training. The on-pitch result doesn't always tell you the whole story. Mourinho has always been clear that he will start the players that work the hardest in training. That includes having an understanding of the manager's expectations, as well as giving an all out physical performance. Choose to believe that, or don't, but again, with so many competitions on the line, and such an ambitious personality, I think that Mourinho will work tirelessly to get results. I want to believe that come January, we are not reading the headlines with 3 Spanish players on the transfer list, but that we read about 3 Spanish players who give a contradictory story to what we are hearing now. That they were, in fact, motivated to fit into, what will (I'm being optimistic) be a top-of-the-table squad. I have serious doubts that we are going to win the PL title this season, but I think next year - should Mourinho still have a job - we should expect to see a refined, ruthless, and stable squad, who churns out a result, week in, week out.
Solid7
solid7. i'm totally with you on the 'we didn't look the champions part' or conjugation thereof. the point i'm trying to make however wasn't about whethere we deserved to win or not (that again is totally debatable, because however ugly it comes, a title still is a title - can't ever devalue that any which way). it's the mata context that i put it into. it's laughable to hear loose statements here that our 'lack of success in the EPL for two seasons' was because of mata. the legions that then voted him (officially and un-) player of the season two years running are all deluded and biased. or so that would imply. i am still willing to buy your optimism that jose has a plan and it still includes mata (to be sure i was a big big fan of jose the first time around, and still believe him to be the best fit for chelsea). but i also fear that the blame for this semi fiasco must come down to our hire-and-fire policy. the revolving doors syndrome means that each subsequent 'interim' manager is inheriting a squad of players not exactly suited to his strategy. this will end up being a perennial case of falling between stools and, ergo, a squad that 'is not good enough to win the big competitions'. this is why some of us aver: it's best for mata and chelsea that he leaves in the winter. and yes, please give jose the entire length of his contract. we cannot expect miracles in a few months in charge. not even from jose. without a shred of doubt though, mata's potential departure (or underutilisation) will be a case of never using our most powerful weapons while going out to war.
johnny come lately
Johnny come lately - you and I are almost in 100% agreement on your last comment. We didn't lose CL because of Mata. And yes, the revolving door nonsense has to stop. I did point out earlier, that this squad is just a bunch of impulse buys, which, as a unit, fit no real system of play. However, Mata being used appears to be completely up to Mata at this point If he does what Jose asks - which is not unreasonable - and still gets set under the shade tree, then we know what's up. Right now, I just hear the boss making his requests known. I refuse to read anything more into it.
Solid7
@latunvic, I concur with every word you posted. It's not about mata vs jose, if you leaving a player out you need to justify it with performances and results. I b
Pila12
yep solid. maybe we have to leave it at that and hope that good sense prevails all around. in my book chelsea needs mata as much as it needs jose. and both in the very long term. let's hope it isn't egos at play here, as some are alluding. ps: when i used to come here years earlier they just shortened it to 'jcl'. saves a load typing in reply to me ;-)
johnny come lately
Steve holland's press conference should put an end and give a better insight on this issue you could check it out on the chelseafc official page or get a excerpts from it through this link www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/juan-mata-must-follow-cristiano-2295556 guess we can move on to something else now??
Hazard11
Thanks for that link, Hazard11. It's really in intelligent strategy, and I believe that it will reap great reward... but not in the short term. We are going to have to swallow our pride, as this is an investment, not just another band-aid.
Solid7
Thanks for the link...
nelyvanile
Mata could come out a better player all around,after he improves his all round game.
nelyvanile
What comes first mous failure or matas success?
trublues
What comes first mous failure or matas success?
trublues
Sorry, meant to say that one should not come at the expense of the other...
Solid7
All round game is nonsense, cfc fans overtrust mou, we should criticize him openly, remember benitez style, we pay money and we expect returns, hell mata was our best return for 2 seasons flair and style not this ***** football we should have got (guardiola)
trublues
"What comes first mous failure or matas success?" ============================================= Seems to me that if they both have their hearts and minds in the right place, then neither should come to pass. The joint success of these 2 men is not an unreasonable thought. There is just way too much emotion being thrown behind this whole Juan Mata episode, at the moment.
Solid7
blogs.grada360.com/juanmata/en/2013/09/23/a-por-la-capital-one/#.UkBNirUVvsk.twitter. Mata's blog
nelyvanile
Sorry, meant to say that one should not come at the expense of the other...
Solid7
Just watching bundesliga program see how xciting footy it, tecnical and fast great passing and accurate shots. Goal ratio is amazing too. Now to cfc boring, lazy, and all round crap. I recommend (klopp)
trublues
Just watching bundesliga program see how xciting footy is, tecnical and fast great passing and accurate shots. Goal ratio is amazing too. Now to cfc boring, lazy, and all round crap. I recommend (klopp)
trublues
"All round game is nonsense, cfc fans overtrust mou, we should criticize him openly, ...hell mata was our best return for 2 seasons flair and style not this ***** football" ============================================= Yes, sure. While the rest of Europe is now tuned in to that gritty, nasty style of play that won us the CL - which, most likely could never happen again. Yes, Mata was the diamond in the rough, no argument. However, we aren't playing any worse this season than the last few. It's at least equally as painful to watch. Only difference is, we've been sold the bill that a manager has been brought in to instill some stability. Or would you rather we continue turn over a new manager every 6 months to a year? (business as usual) "All around game" is one of the modern football strategies, and is what will be required to remain competitive in top tier competition. Unless you prefer to play mid-table football, for the sake of your preference of play? If fans overtrust Mourinho, as you say, then I implore you to make your case with the board, and have yourself appointed. I believe, that with your confidence, you could surely single-handedly lead this squad to European domination. Otherwise, give the man a chance to prove himself - or fail.
Solid7
We need a competent director of football ie guus hiddink
trublues
@solid you liar! check last season opening stats and now not bad eh? Mous ****s
trublues
Anonymous has kidnapped (roman) they say, they want a small mata of mou.
trublues
trublues - What do you hope to prove with your stats? That we lost 2 of the first 5, in all comps? (Community Shield and Super Cup) We almost repeated that performance this season. If you are hoping to illustrate that we trounced all of the lower tier teams in our season opener, great. Point proven. This season has seen ALL teams suffer a loss or consecutive draws. There is no lying going on, here. Our "system" isn't working. The inconsistency (and ultimate first round elimination) in UCL last season shows that more clearly than domestic competition.
Solid7
Nice counterpoints SOLID7, nice article gabeu and there are some quality counter points, what I'll say is can we give this a rest for awhile? If anyone saw alan curbushley's analysis this evening on sky, u would see what we have been saying about juan and it isn't bashing, the people saying it is a bashing of mata are just being deliberately provocative, when steve holland who have been with cfc for 2 seasons come out and give insights on what he thinks and yet we are still doubting mourinho, it is just too unfair, to make matters worse, u are making it sound as if oscar have not justified his inclusion as our number 10 with 3 goals in 6 games and u are also making it seem as if we don't play crap atimes with mata even on the pitch, I am all for benching mata and playing him in the 2nd half till he gets to the level mou wants him to be at, which would make him to be a better player. Pls those that saw the sky video analysis of alan curbishley would see why mata needs to improve with his game to become better
Desmondadonis
@Desmond.... I don't think people are being provocative, I feel people are only expressing their opinions and like I said earlier, it will be very unreal to expect Chelsea fans to keep quite and not say anything about Mata's exclusion... On your point about doubting Mourinho, I think God is the only that should not be doubted.... and I don't think fans are doubting Mourinho anyway, it is more of fans being a bit critical which is fair enough considering Mata is our best player and our own little magician..... Other than that, I'm glad the comments and debates on this thread have so far been civil, intelligent and void of abuses or personal attacks.... How I wish every thread can be like this.....
Latunvic
Someone said Mata brings out the best in Hazard and oscar hence he needs to play. We don't don't need someone to bring out the best in them but rather they should be able to bring the best out of themselves without anyone's help. We all know almost how clueless barca is without messi, if our team is said to be clueless without mata then they had better have a head and start being creative without him. Maybe Jose had noticed our over reliance on mata (which in true we do) who he feels still has some deficiencies to be fulfilled before we can have some reliance as such. Jose is brilliant so is mata, jose has chelsea at heart and only want to win with us and I hope mata does too. But we must accept that the deed has already been done by jose and mata isn't seeing much playing time. Jose is the boss and it will be in mata's best interest to do what jose ask if he wants to feature more often or else the worse will happen and jose will come out top cos I am already seeing this team continue to win without Mata. Hence, I hope both party come out tops cos I really really do love them both to pieces
kolagold25
Nobody is saying anyone shouldn't doubt. Whoever told you that we who are giving jose our support don't so have our reserved views of the situation? But while you are doubting also tend to leave room for belief in the coach too. If your doubts and beliefs are balanced then I expect you to be patient and let's see how it will all workout. The fact is if it doesn't workout only one person would have himself to blame which is jose init. And am sure he knows this considering the kind of owner he knows he has. Just give him room for error and a little patience before we can all raise the alarm
kolagold25
kolagold25 - that's a pretty interesting position. I firmly believe that this season, if Mourinho's ideas are allowed to take root, we will see a transformation of several players, from good to truly great. (Mata being the chief of them) You cannot convince me logically that Jose Mourinho is willing to walk into a club, and burn it to the ground. Nor can you convince me that he won't abandon a bad course of action, if it proves to be such, before the point of no return. He may have a big ego, but I don't believe any vendetta is so personal that he'd throw away chances to win. (especially if he really wants to recruit in the future) This is a man that understands the psychology of the game better than all but an elite few. That's a demonstrated fact. He also knows how to play mind games with the opposition. This could all be fun and games, with a specific goal in mind. Only the man - and whoever he has let in - knows the truth, at this moment. I, personally, expect to see a radically different squad by the time the next transfer window rolls around. Hopefully, we will be laughing at all of this by then...
Solid7
Read the comment well latunvic, I said the people who were saying mata is been bashed are provocative not those who are giving good counterpoints, saying those that want mata to adapt his game to suit jose style are bashing him is provocative.
Desmondadonis
Latunvic: "I think god is the only that should not be doubted" LMAO!!!
Pavel Permiachkin
www.talkchelsea.net/_/articles/what-will-jose-mourinhos-chelsea-look-like-r348. Have a read,very good analytical points and tactics.
nelyvanile
Thanks for the link, nelyvanile. It confirmed one thing that I mentioned earlier: ============================================= If one had to sum ​​up the philosophy of Jose Mourinho through a phase of the game, it would certainly be attackings transitions. The Portuguese is one of the technicians who are particularly looking into the different ways of managing the five seconds following the ball turnover to build their offensive circuits. According to Mourinho, it's the "perfect time to exploit the fact that an opponent is out of position" as "spaces are hard to find when the two teams are in place". =========================================== And that quote is EXACTLY why more is expected of the attacking players. One only needs to watch a team like Bayern Munich to realize the importance of adding a defensive attacking line, while not neglecting the purely defensive back line.
Solid7
Exactly Solid7. Transition of play is very important,with a strategic balanced shape. And its not based on the individuals,its a philosophy implemented for whoever plays the role...so the ability of a player to adapt into the role he plays is a big plus,hence Oscars selection.
nelyvanile
Nice article@ gabeu Thanks for all your comment.................I want chelsea to win, be stable,be consistent,I want mata to play because I like him personally as a pro, I have always preferred oscar as our #10 since after olympics......I want mourinho to also prove every body against his benching mata wrong and also want mourinho to bench lampard............ But hey I don't have the power To implement.... Only three set can I.e chelsea, mr moneybag roman, happy one jose...................................................................................................................since that's the case everybody on vc should just keep on talking because every word u say must be use against you if it fails..............am so happy
Finney_angel
Ok @Desmond.... no probs... @Pavel, what's so funny?
Latunvic
This is a great article and reflects my views. I personally think this is all Jose mind games. What i really think is he has identified Juan Mata as his number 1 player in this squad and the key man in bringing about the new philosophy he is trying to implement. But what Jose is trying to do is make Mata the complete player and is challenging him to take him to the absolute top level. All this Mata saga is an act because if he really wasn't a Jose payer why didn't Jose sell him in the summer? He had plenty of time to do so. Trust me by the end of this season Mata will have become even better than he ever was.
Ess...DaBison
Latunvic you got more "faith" in your imaginary friend than we do in Jose.
Pavel Permiachkin
Btw now Jason Cundy analyzed Mata's deficiencies. Cundy was showing Mata's slow pace against city and not challenging yaya in fa cup semi final which ultimately cost us the 2nd goal. Then also Mata not challenging against basel which led Basel to the equaliser. Mourinho wants to see Mata more vigorous in pressing. If we defend high block losing ball will be killer........... A friend of mine posted this on another forum, if jason cundy did say this truely, then I wonder what the fuss is about if jose wants him to get better. Personally I love the way mata have responded to this so far, I am expecting him to buckle up and work very hard, get better and make a spot his own in the lineup, either as a RW or no.10 it doesn't really matter for me, just him improving on his weakness without losing his strengths to be more deadly, modric is just small as mata but packs a mean tackle, now imagine mata being able to do half of what modric can do while pressing a player, we'll have a complete player in our hands
Desmondadonis
Yes I do @Pavel. You call Him imaginary, I call Him real.... far more real than Jose.... Jose is nothing compared to Him, extremely incomparable.... @Desmond.. where did your friend get those quotes from, maybe there is a mix up somewhere... I watched Jason Cundy commenting before the match and also at half time and he said nothing close to that.... I bet those are not Jason's words.... he was in fact lamenting on how dysfunctional our attack is without Mata..... Moreover, before we blame mata for those goals, I can tell you there are about 9 other players we can blame before we even talk of Mata... Who do we blame for the Everton goal, the goals against Bayern, Basel's 2nd goal....etc...? do we blame Mata for all those as well... Do we blame Cech, Iva, or A.Cole for our inability to get a goal against Everton?.... This argument against Mata is going too extreme....
Latunvic
Pavel talking ***** as usual.
oscarr
These questions goes to GabeU and others,Pls answer sincerely:- 1)If you have been watching our games so far this season,you dont need someone to tell you hazard has been awful this season(except the bayern game).Though he tracks back,runs around,but in attack he has been awful in most games this season.Why hasnt he been benched??.Jose said you have to merit your gametime,but why hasnt hazard been benched for playing poorly?? Hazard plays terribly for 90 minutes in a game,but still plays another 90 minutes in the next game and continues playing 90 minutes in all games with poor performances.But Mata plays poorly for 60 minutes in a wrong position,but he gets benched for the next two games.Is that justice??.Isn't that partiallity and favouritism??.If not why would hazard continue to be given opportunities in every game even if he plays badly but same isn't done for Mata.Or is Jose satisfied with how terrible hazard has been playing(although tracking back) and wants mata to play that way???. ..............2)Would you prefer the way hazard is playing now(tracking back,pressing really hard,but awful in attack) to the fantastic hazard of last season,though a little lazy and hardly tracked back,but was always a constant threat to any defence in the EPL??.Which do you prefer??
blueozone
@BlueOzone. Hazard has been poor offensively,but his hard work,and continuous pressing of opposition has merited him his starts. Hazard and Oscar are the only players that have been playing to instruction tactically,dragging players out of position to create space for others,and helping out defensively when needed. Ofcourse we know Hazard will get better offensively with time as he adapts to his role,like Joe Cole did. Many people on here hardly saw the Jose vs Joe Cole situation and how fans moaned about Jose not starting him,and how the media complained about Jose not playing the most skillful English talent,but as soon as Joe Cole adjusted to the role,and adapted to the role,he was arguably the most impressive player in blue and became more consistent. Jose likes a hard worker,a player that gets stuck in,works hard for the team,and is able to adapt to any tactical tweaks. For your question on which do i prefer...I have no obligations to a particular player,i have preached about having a well balanced team for months,and a team that works for each other offensively and defensively. We are quick to blame the Pivot as the reason we concede goals,forgetting every team that employs the 4-2-3-1,create a structure based on balance. Either a 4-2-4,4-1-2-3,4-1-4-1 e.t.c offensively or when an attack is strategized,or a 4-5-1,4-4-2,4-4-1-1,when set up to defend an opposition attack,the most important thing is getting the balance right,and that depends on the players ability to adapt tactically.
nelyvanile
I'm sure if you've noticed,especially in young players,when they evolve or are learning to adjust,performance or form tends to drop,only to rise again when they fully adjust and adapt to the role,sometimes to even greater heights. When Rafa took on the funnel tactical defensive approach,(4-4-1-1) a tactics I didn't agree on as it put too much pressure on the pivot especially durring opposition counter attack. It involves the wingers dropping deep to Left and Right midfield respectively to cover for full backs,and force the opposition to go through the middle. Hazard looked to drop form,and many people complained about letting him express himself rather than limiting him,but as soon as he adapted to his new role,the lad exploded in March...patience is key.
nelyvanile
Latunvic, I saw with my own eyes alan curbishley's analysis of mata's deficiencies, perhaps the friend that saw jason cundy's analysis saw It late last night, I'll try and ask him to confirm the story if he is willing to join the debate in here for today, his percieved negativity in here made him take break, so it would be hard to bring him to confirm the story......... And no one is saying mata is responsible for all the goals we conceded, but he would contribute to it
Desmondadonis
Latunvic, I saw with my own eyes alan curbishley's analysis of mata's deficiencies, perhaps the friend that saw jason cundy's analysis saw It late last night, I'll try and ask him to confirm the story if he is willing to join the debate in here for today, his percieved negativity in here made him take a break, so it would be hard to bring him to confirm the story......... And no one is saying mata is responsible for all the goals we conceded, but he would contribute to it if he doesn't adapt his game
Desmondadonis
Thumbs up GabeU this was a great article. @Blu_run sorry to say but you really do have a small mind with low thinking capacity. I always had the feeling that Mata would lose his place when Jose arrived. Tactical reasons play a part but personal reasons do too but not the way critics have put it. I think Jose sees more potential in Oscar than Mata which is the reason why Mata has lost his place & I too agree with this. I don't think Mata can regain his former glory even if he fully adapts because Mata at his best would still play from the wings under Jose as stated by him already which would result in him being under utilized. When Mou loves a player, he would definitely play the player till he gets to the level required of him. Take for instance, Mou's first tenure in charge, we had a similar situation with Crespo & Drogba. Crespo was clearly the better performer at the time and a world class striker while Drogba was a relatively good player but he stuck with Drogba because he saw more potential in him. We all know how that story ended. Oscar might not be at Mata's level yet, but given his quality I don't think it would take him much time to catch up. I remember the day he made his full debut against Juve many saw a future Ballon d' or winner in him including rival fans that's how good he is. He was incredible last season but many don't see it that way forgetting the fact that he was playing in Europe for the very first time at a very young age in a less favourable position for him. I believe that Oscar at the age of 23 would be better than Mata at the age of 25 & I do not stand to be corrected on this one. Infact, am sitting down right now!
Louis Lancuv
@louis lancuv don't see any of our players being a future ballon d' winner, they will be great players one day but don't see that. If Jose sticks to Oscar who I think is a very good player, just don't like the style of him coming out publicly to say Oscar is his no10 so wot hope does mata have and remember we not talking about a fringe player here, we talking arguable chelsea's most gifted player right now. Every manager has his style of play so if mata doesn't fit in and leaves Chelsea to blossom somewhere else why is that a problem for some people. Even opposition fans know who chelsea's best player is but some and the coach now see his deficiencies not his contributions. Talking about Steve holland wot did u expect him to say disagree with Jose on tv, this guys are managers puppets wen a next manager comes now he will dance to the tune of the manager, I don't take Steve holland serious.
Pila12
Lol at latunvic.
Pavel Permiachkin
Mata doesn't have to be nr.10 per so in order to be as effective as he was before. He can do it from the left, but even better if he does it from the right. Last season he was drifting and playing way more on the right then in real center so I don't see the big deal with all the nr.10 crap
zg2000fs
@Pila that's just one of Mou's faults. He makes human mistakes too like everyone else. He isn't a gentleman as you should know already so you're gonna have to accept him as he is.
Louis Lancuv
 

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