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On Pogba

On the back of my article on Lukaku is this piece on Juventus sensation Paul Pogba. In this article we shall explore whether and why we should sign him and the economic and footballing reasons involved.

Ability - This is perhaps something that is very important to cover on. I read a comment a few days back that buying Paul Pogba is a waste of money because he is essentially a like for like replacement for Ramires. While I won`t embarrass the member who said this it brought to light the glaring ignorance on Pogba. At the same time I will also state Ramires is very much in my plans and Jose's plans. The merits of Ramires will be discussed in another article.

Coming back to Paul Pogba. Terms like complete striker, complete midfielder etc are cliches. But if there was ever a complete midfielder then it`s Paul Pogba.

Every player has certain glaring weaknesses. But anyone who has actually seen 30-40 games of Pogba in action will tell you that there is nothing the kid cannot do.

Pogba is like a cloning experiment gone great. He combines the qualities of all types of midfielders.

First and foremost he is blessed with balance, tactical and technical. With midfielders like Fabregas and Kroos you can say they offer much more in attack than defense. And the vica-versa is true for some midfielders.

In Pogba's case he brilliantly balances attacking and defensive nous and gives you a completely balanced team by being a link. In fact there isn`t a system or a team that would struggle to cope with Pogba or vica versa.

In attack - Pogba is very good in dribbling past opponents despite his tall frame with relative ease. In gaming terms he has got the proverbial 5 star skills. His ability to keep the ball under pressure at such a young age is shockingly good. His first touch and ball distribution are excellent as well.

With Lampard`s exit our midfield looks a bit thin in terms of scoring goals from a distance. Whether via a pass or a volley or a half volley Pogba has the ability to strike from 20-30 yards out at will like as if he were a striker.

His ability to play the quick overhead pass or through ball are already there and will improve tremendously with age.

Defensively - his positional understanding is perfect. He knows where he has to be located at any given point of the game and is rarely caught out. His work rate and desire to give his all combined with excellent understanding of the game means he combines with Matic perfectly to give you the most balanced, intelligent and talented pivot combination. In a midfield trio his attacking prowess and quick transition of the ball give you a third creative outlet along with Matic and Fabregas meaning you simply cannot mark the Chelsea midfield and prevent them from both controlling possession or counterattacking at will. Trying to stop a midfield trio is quite simply a fruitless task. And at the same time trying to overrun them is equally hard as Matic and Pogba are beasts.

His height of 6 feet 2 inches gives you a set piece threat both defensively and offensively. Having to cope with JT, Costa, Cahill, Ivanovic, Matic and Pogba all at once during a corner is a nightmarish situation that would trouble even the jolly green giants of Stoke let alone midgets on European nights.

Potential - The best part of Pogba's ability is that not only are they very good but have a humongous growth potential. What this basically means is with the right attitude from the player and the coach and barring Essienesque injuries Pogba is nailed on to become the best central midfielder of the coming decade and a potential ballon d'or contender.

The best part is Chelsea will have the best midfield in Europe for a decade and dominating the midfield week in week out is the necessary hallmark of a team that wants to dominate Europe and England and accumulate trophies like pokemon. Chelsea's success under the first Mourinho era and well into the manager carousel era was having the best and most balanced midfield.

On the Cost Factor - first of all lets understand that the figure of €60 million is in euros and not pounds. This makes the figure close to £54 million pounds. How did this figure come up?
This figure came up when Real Madrid decided they wanted some Pogba in their galactico side and Juventus said it would cost them 60 million euros flat to make it happen.

What this essentially means is that Juve know if they sell Pogba it would essentially mean the buying club will acquire the best midfielder for another decade and want to be fairly compensated. This is a statement of intent by Juve and a recognition of what Pogba offers. This does not necessarily mean that £54 million is what it will exactly cost. A figure of £48-49 million is what the deal would actually end up costing the buying club. Is this figure too much? Yes, on the naked eye it is a lot to pay. But once you dig deeper the story is different.

Another top midfielder out for sale from the same club with the same types of buyers interested (Madrid, PSG, United, Chelsea) is Arturo Vidal. I know many people who feel buying Vidal for 40 million or Martinez for a similar amount is alright but buying Pogba is not.
But there is a big catch they do not understand. Let me explain.

When you buy a 26-27-28 year old you are 'buying' a player and not 'investing' in him. At the end of the 5 years with you irrespective of whether you given an extension during the course of the contract or let him go for free you aren`t getting any money back because he has zero resale value. The max you can ever recoup for a 32 year old midfielder is 5-7 million and that`s assuming he hasn`t declined badly enough with age.

So basically what it means is if you are paying 40 million for a 26+ year old midfielder you are essential kissing the money you spend goodbye permanently. But if you pay 50 million for a Pogba when he is 26 and assuming you haven`t been daft enough to not extend him- he will be worth

A. More than 50 million if he lives up to his potential

B. Close to 50 million if he does a great job if not spectacular.

C. Around 25-30 million if he underperforms.

What this means is you go anywhere from making a profit or at the very least recovering a sizeable chunk of his transfer fee if you ever do choose to sell him or he asks for a move.

This is the difference between 'investing' and 'buying' when you are paying huge sums.

We 'bought' Torres, Essien, Drogba. We 'invested' in Hazard, Oscar, Mata because we bought them young.

Also let`s assume we never sell Pogba and he plays 10 years for us. What works out cheaper? Buying Vidal for 40 million or buying Pogba for 50 million. Shockingly the answer is Pogba for 50 million. What many people fail to understand is that the transfer fee is ammortised during the entire duration of the player`s contract and further ammortised if the contract is extended. So Vidal would cost you 8 million a year transfer fee wise over a 5 year period by the end of which he is 32 and in a year or two ready to be moved on.

Pogba would cost 10 million a year for the first three years. Usually at this point we will extend a player`s contract and sell handsomely if he doesn`t. Assuming we extend it, he will cost only 4 million a year for 5 more years and that figure will come down when we extend again.

So over a 12 year period Pogba's net transfer cost per year would only be HALF of that of Vidal/Martinez and two-fifths that of Torres. To put things into perspective that`s like paying 25 million for a top midfielder who is 26-27.

So whether we sell him for a profit or the same price or we sell him for half his bought price or if we never sell him and keep him for a decade Pogba will still be half as expensive as any top midfielders and strikers. I am so surprised no one has worked this bit out.

Salary - Adding to the fact that even a huge transfer fee of 50 million being ever economical is the low wages. To sign a Vidal you have to match United's wage offers of 220k or at least come close. Pogba on the other hand is at a laughable 1million a year. Matching Juve's offer to quadruple his wages is still a whole lot cheaper than paying 220k a week.

When people say United did a mistake by buying Shaw for 35 million they miss the point. It`s not the transfer fee but the wages that cripple clubs. Its Torres's wages that are a problem and make him unmovable. Every time United extend Shaw they have to give him a rise making him a financial burden permanently even if he goes on to become world class.

The fact that Pogba's wages will be a half of what you have to pay Vidal to land him means he ends up costing even less than half year on year than Vidal by the time both of them turn 32-33.

How will he fit in? - If there ever was a perfect CM who is a box to box, cum DLP to partner a ball playing DM like a Matic its Pogba. With him you have the best pivot in Europe let alone England for the coming decade. Player`s don`t play 60 games a season. Rotation will Ramires and Van Ginkel and Tiago/Fabregas are inevitable. A good pivot needs 4-5 quality players in the squad as opposed to two. Squad rotation keeps players fresh and ensures everyone is happy with their contribution.

With Matic you have one of the best ball playing DMs. Backing him up with Tiago whom we land on a free is a master stroke as Tiago unlike when he was last with us is now a DM. He makes an average of 4 interceptions a game and tackles really well. Plus he will be on low wages. Tiago also is an excellent stopgap to Nathaniel Chalobah who will require two stints in the Premier League to become a ready product to use.

Pogba as a partner to Matic is ever reliable and rotating with MVG will do them both good. Ramires finishes the 5 man pivot force by being the utility player (why I keep Ramires over Mikel is for another day).

Fabregas on the other hand rotates with Oscar. Fabregas is what we needed to unlock parked buses last season where as Oscar is the number 10 of choice keeping with Jose's 'how to beat big teams' blueprint.

In a 3 man midfield all 6 of these players can be used depending on the opposition and situation to devastating effect.

On Our Youth - Whenever I hear our youth will get ruined because of Pogba I wince. Or comments like if MVG or Ruben Loftus Cheek or Chalobah started for us they would be as good as Pogba I wince some more.

First of all some of the names like Baker, Swift etc aren`t pivot players per say. Further players like Ake, Chalobah are more defensive midfielders than central midfielders. The only true CMs are Ruben Loftus Cheek and Josh McEachran. Please not - not all pivot players are CMs.

Josh McEachran hasn`t shown any signs of being ready anytime soon. And RLC is 18. It`s going to be another 3-4years before he is even in the picture after successful loan spells of increasing difficulty.

Further I believe in a 'survival of the fittest policy' rather than 'protectionism'.

'protectionism' is a concept based on emotions where one wants a player to succeed because he was from the academy for the bragging rights and emotional kick of the player being 'one of us'. This mind-set compromises on quality. For every Sterling and Januzaj there are 30-40 United/Liverpool boys that didn`t make the cut. 90% of any academy produces duds.

Also academy success for big clubs doesn`t lead to significant saving. Barca have spent only 4 million a year less than we have despite having La Masia.

Furthermore the concept of protectionism compromises on quality.

In 10 years no one will remember whether Pogba was made at Chelsea or not. They will remember the trophies we won. Similarly not many of us remember that many of our academy products weren`t from Chelsea but other academies. By that definition does JMac deserve to be in the first team because he joined earlier than a 16 year old we signed from another academy? By this definition only Chalobah and Jmac deserve to be protected and Feruz and Brown are 'not one of us'. It doesn`t really matter where the player was born or developed or the colour of his skin or his hairstyle. What matters is what he does when he is in the senior team.

A survival of the fittest policy demand merit. This means if Ruben Loftus Cheek and JMac are better after 4 years than Pogba its 'au revoir' Pogba. Or in English 'bye-bye'

And we cash in on him.

Promoting players on merit and giving them guarantees on merit ensures the overall well-being of the club. The number of academy boys in the first team is only a statistic to brag about over coffee tables.

Anyway, after looking at the footballing merits and supposed 'overpaying' of signing Pogba and after certain myths and emotional arguments are demolished there is only one take away from this article.

When you have an opportunity to sign a player like Pogba you don`t act like a wisecrack and propagate myths of economics and tactics from the comfort of an armchair with a picture of Wenger behind you.

You sign him up.




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The Journalist

Writer: saber Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Saturday July 5 2014

Time: 2:00AM

Your Comments

Total respect as always saber ... always classy pieces from you
Blue_Mel
Total respect as always saber ... always classy pieces from you
Blue_Mel
True talk champ...after this article we should definitely get him lol I hope you're reading Jose
JohnnyOz
saber again, those early days of vitalchelsea are all flooding all down on me again. Saber what has become of the 'sight', 'dreams' and 'predictions'?
Ikdaniels
note also that Pogba will qualify as home grown alongside Fabregas which will help in reducing the effect of realeasing Lampard and A. Cole. I say, sign him up...
Ikdaniels
Wonderful article saber!! but i beg to differ with your opinion...consider kroos and lampard...Almost identical...But what our forward miss the most our through balls and quick passes played to them...i have seen hazard waiting for the ball to come to him and by the time it comes...he is being marked by 2-3 defenders...rather than pogba i think kroos woukd be a better solution to this problem...Also since drogba mata lampard and luiz have left...we needed a strong set piece taker...again kroos is the solution...Considering Kroos age and money for his transfer....Kroos and pogba may cause equal financial burden...Plus kroos may have one of d best long range shots in d game now...The biggest reason for kroos over pogba would be that for our forwards having three creative outlets in the form of fabre4 kroos and oscar would be more benefecial rather than just oscar and fabre...to counter your point about defensiveplus points of pogba over kroos...i would agree...But since matic came in last season...the opposition attack was singlehandedly stifled by him..I think 5 defenders(defense and matic) along with work rate from our forwards is enough cover for our defense...
AdwaitlovesChelsea
pogba is good but kroos would be better suited to chelsea....for me he reminds me of young lamps...we are missing lamps scoring abilities and his running in the box...kroos can provide us with that...and he can play as no 10 as well as cm...for me kroos over pogba....we need a young lamp type player which is we are missing a lot...
shlok27
pogba is good but kroos would be better suited to chelsea....for me he reminds me of young lamps...we are missing lamps scoring abilities and his running in the box...kroos can provide us with that...and he can play as no 10 as well as cm...for me kroos over pogba....we need a young lamp type player which is we are missing a lot...
shlok27
Lol with that last sentence. Trolling Le Arse fans . I know Pogba is good but daresay their are other players out their with similar qualities costing us far less
Dwonder
*smh* Dr Wombat, most of your opinions are preposterous and whimsical at best, if not downright fallacious and delusory. FALLACY 1: "This does not necessarily mean that £54 million is what it will exactly cost. A figure of £48-49 million(sic) is what the deal would actually end up costing the buying club." FALLACY 1 CHECK: Juventus say it is £60m yet you claim otherwise. Are you Pogba's agent, relative or a Juventus board member??? FALLACY 2: "When you buy a 26-27-28 year old you are 'buying' a player and not 'investing' in him. At the end of the 5 years with you irrespective of whether you given an extension during the course of the contract or let him go for free you aren`t getting any money back because he has zero resale value(sic). The max you can ever recoup for a 32 year old midfielder is 5-7 million and that`s assuming he hasn`t declined badly enough with age." FALLACY 2 CHECK: How much do you think a 31-year-old Yaya Toure or 31-year-old Robin Van Persie, for example, go for nowadays? £0m or 5-7 million??? You should have researched some more, this one is riddled with too much guesswork and opinionated fallacies lad. Maybe the encomiums of the Pogba thread got in the way? LOLest... ;)
McQuinnChels
^^^and before you spin me some more fallacious yarn in case you ain't comfortable talking RVP and Toure, prepare a text about a Wayne Rooney, Franck Ribery, Arjen Robben, Zlatan Ibrahimovic, Andre Iniesta, Felipe Luis, Radamel Falcao, Pablo Zabaleta, Thiago Silva, Ezequiel Lavezzi and all the other world class stars either in their 30s or close to the 30th birthday mark! Who amongst that lot is £0m or 5-7 million as you claim?
McQuinnChels
first of all kroos would make an excellent addition had we not signed cesc. playing cesc-matic-kroos in midfield is putting all the responsibility on matic. assume matic has a bad game. who helps out defensively in the midfield. answer - noone
saber
further what if matic gets injured. its not as though we have makalele on the bench
saber
getting the combination is right. we arent in a weak league where we can go all attack. none of matic cesc or kroos have pace. matic has positional discipline. but expecting him to single handedly kill counters is a stretch
saber
it would also mean the defence would be pulled out of position to help matic leading to a situation where any half decent counter attacking side would kill us off
saber
@mcquinn - first of all if u insist on name calling u shud be banned . ppl like you spoil the atmosphere with nothing but childish behaviour. making unprovocated attacks on someone while hiding behind a keyboard is pathetic
saber
further any discussion based on transfers between european clubs is in euros not pounds.juventus's stated price was in euros not pounds. the confusion between euros and pounds happens a lot and even journalists make that error when they copy a continental article and forget that its in euros. 60 million euros can become 60 million pounds easily im the confusion and melee
saber
further the 30+ players you stated are either AMs or strikers. its well known that the prices for these players irrespective of age is higher
saber
a player can be the best DM or CM of his age group of 32-34 but his valuation will not be the sane as that of a ST or AM of similar ability
saber
kroos and fabregas may have certain differences but both are attack leaning midfielders with little defensive capabilities. these players need to be protected behind them with 2 players or at least 1 very good defensive player and one action hero who shuttles back and forth to win the ball when the team looses it
saber
but ofcousrse the pep and rodgers fanboys dont mind conceeding ***** loads of goals and only think of passing passing passing crearivity creativity creativity
saber
any half decent manager would kill such a set up on the counter with relative ease and god forbid we loose matic the back 4 will just be sitting ducks waiting to be pulled apart on every counter attack
saber
some of the players mcquinn stated arent even past 30. there is a reason we arent prepared to pay fr felipe luis what atletico want. because while hes not over 30 yet he will be in 2 yrs time
saber
if you are suggesting the resale value of a player over 30 is the same as that of a player in his peak in the same position and same skillset it doesnt work like that
saber
yes at the age of 32+ certain midfielders will get lucrative contracts in the MLS or in the arab countries. but the club that sells them will gets peanuts
saber
ofcourse there are freaks of nature like yaya toure who will still fetch a good price at 31-32 but because they are late bloomers they are an exception rather than a norm
saber
Enlightening article by saber (as always). I like pogba and love kroos, but I think if we are to choose between those two, we need to first outline the style of football we want to play this coming season; 1. If its the same style jose was trying to implement last season, pogba's your guy. 2. If we are trying to pass the opponents into submission, kroos is your guy.....If we look back at mourinho's time at madrid the only players he bought for the pivot were modric and khedira (they already had alonso) why? Modric (cm) is an excellent distributor of the ball with outstanding defensive attributes. Khedira (dm), also a very good passer of the ball with top notch defensive capabilities (a la ramires only without the speed). Here we see that jose likes his pivot players to be very good in distributing the ball and have unique defensive qualities. Kroos' passing is unique but his defensive abilities aren't up to scratch, pogba on the other hand has (like saber has stated) a perfect blend of defensive and attacking qualities. So unless we want kroos as our no 10 (not happening), it might be best we go for pogba......... If we could get kroos though, we should! He would be classified as a luxury buy and rightly so. You don't get a player of his qualities available in every transfer window...
don delsy
saber your last comment suggests to me that when mourinho makes a formation with kroos and fabregas they both wont even come back to help the defense...of course kroos can be as good doing defense if he tries to improve at a club like chelsea...and do u really think our biggest problem would be defending after last season!! when some people clamour for goals u want an all out midfielder who runs back and forth...lampard who was a box to box mid in his declining years wasnt really helping in d defense as u want...all tackles and stuff...all u want in pivot or mid 3 is calm maturity and increasing the speed of the play...
AdwaitlovesChelsea
the decline of a player after 31-32 is inevitable and that massively reduces resale value of such players. ofcourse there are dumb clubs like PSG and freaks of nature who are an exception rather than a norm who peak late and have more value.
saber
barring injuries or a pato like drop in form top players in their peak will always have resale value thats beyond players in their twilight.
saber
*u shud want
AdwaitlovesChelsea
wud united pay 40+ million for a 32 yr old mata or wud psg pay 50 million fr a 32 yr old luis.- i think not
saber
if we sell hazard oscar or others . because we bought them young even tho we paid top dollar to sign them we would sell them for a big profit margin. that profit would evem cover the wage amounts we gave them. this is called investment. because in the end the club made money or at the very least lost no money but at the same time enjoyed the services of the player
saber
@ advait- balance is important. imbalance towards attack or defense is costly in the long run. liverpool went all attack and conceeded 47 goals. and they finished above us by a scanty margin. our problem was the oppsite. lack of goals. but we must be careful to not overdo it by moving into the wrong direction. kroos or fabregas can play. platying both with just matic behind dem is suicidal
saber
Well you don't need to spam your own thread all by yourself, do you? Of course even American NFL fans know younger players command more transfer fees in football, and in sport generally than older ones, but isn't it funny how you now say "AMs and strikers...and freaks of nature blah blah...", whereas you generalized them as "players" in the article. Laughable to say the least, but nice try all the same lad ;)
McQuinnChels
Well you don't need to spam your own thread all by yourself, do you? Of course even American NFL fans know younger players command more transfer fees in football, and in sport generally than older ones, but isn't it funny how you now say "AMs and strikers...and freaks of nature blah blah...", whereas you generalized them as "players" in the article. Laughable to say the least, but nice try all the same lad ;)
McQuinnChels
making unprovocated attacks on someone while hiding behind a keyboard is pathetic...he is fond of that...
Hazard11
@saber...nice artcle..i have said it before here...pogba will offer us balance...kroos and pogba are quality players..kroos is more efficient as an amf..he played more as an amf under hencykes, playing there for Germany now..i remember madrid bayern 2nd leg when schweinstiger and kroos played the DM and CM...i could remember madrid running all over them with the ball and countering them with ease..thats not to say kroos is bad but he doesnt just suit the CM position best even if he might be a slightly better player than pogba atm (thats if he is)
Hazard11
and assuming you watch 30+ Pogba games for Juventus (and France) as you inferred, you'd have to be insincere and unnecessarily biased and economical with the truth not to have noticed how the kid sucks without help from Vidal (and Matuidi + Cabaye)! Plus, didn't you here the Old Lady fans boo his ass off at some point during last season, incidentally when Vidal was missing games due to injury? Also, have you seen him take dead balls - free kicks and corner kicks - for Juve and France, like the silky Kroos who is officially Die Maanshaft's and Die Roten's official taker? Anyway, it's your opinion so keep it; but be sure as far as I'm concerned it's a myth to say Pogba balances attack and defence more than Kroos does, because each time I watch France and Juve with Pogba playing, I see more of Matuidi and Pirlo initiating attacks upon attacks and Cabaye and Vidal putting in the tackles and intersections, whilst everyone knows what Kroos brings to the table! For Christssake Chelsea over the Mourinho years have been too defensive for most fans' liking, and sometimes the defensive football is awfully ugly and painful to watch; and we still have and want to keep RAMIRES!!! So what could you possibly be afraid of? I'll rather buy the cheaper, classier, more technical and better experienced German than risk 60m pound (or euros, whatever) on sheer "potential", if I were calling the shots. Hate him or love him Sir Alex Ferguson is (and was) nobody's fool.
McQuinnChels
My concern wrt to acguisition of Pogba has always been the cost which i always think is sky high, but never doubted his abilities as he 'll perfectly partner Matic in that pivot. Another area i was worried is our academy products which i thought 'll be stifled , but the article has cleared most of my doubts especially the long run advantage as well as compromising quality following protectionism methods. I agree with most of the points raised & must say quite informative & educative article. As regards Tony Kroos, i'm not particularly impressed with his defensive records as such dont think he is a perfect partner to Matic. He may flourish in another style of play such as 4-3-3 formation & no doubt is a dead ball specialist. Every complete/strong team develop their own specialist through hardwork, dedication, commitment & discipline not just buying ready made. Ronaldo, Drogs & Lamps trained so hard in United & Chelsea to become one & so any of Hazard, Oscar, Schurrle, Costa or Willian could develop that art & become a dead ball specialist. Overall i must say thank you once again @Saber for being there for us. Cheers!
Jerry Blues
Hi Jerry, now there's a strong member with some lovely thick skin! You say " Every complete/strong team develop their own specialist through hardwork, dedication, commitment & discipline not just buying ready made. Ronaldo, Drogs & Lamps trained so hard in United & Chelsea to become one & so any of Hazard, Oscar, Schurrle, Costa or Willian could develop that art & become a dead ball specialist." My questions are 'when', 'why' and 'how'? When will Willian e.g., learn the art and become, say, a Mata or a Kroos at dead balls? Why are Barcelona on the verge of spending £80m on Suarez even when they have the most famous academy in the world? How come nobody in La Masia has yet learned Suarez's art? Please don't feel attacked like the rest, let's just debate, will yer?
McQuinnChels
Hint: the line between talent and learned behaviour can be essentially blurred or too thin, but there's a line nonetheless.
McQuinnChels
@mquinn- u obviously have a problem reading and understanding what you read. i never said he would take set pieces be it corners or free kicks but that he would be a "set piece threat". there is a BIG DIFFERENCE. terry ivanovic cahill are set piece threats - doesnt mean they take set pieces. it meas they provide targets in the box in corners or free kicks while at the same time nullifying the same in a defensive set piece. FFS READ AND UNDERSTAND BEFORE RUNNING YOUR MOUTH OF
saber
@hazard11 precisely mate. BALANCEEEE! hipsters of AVB amd rodgers school od thought woudnt understand that
saber
Despite the persuasive writing once again, be it £60m or euros, not at that price. For a midfielder?!! For 'potential'??!! Only proven strikers command that sort of money, the world and Juve's board has gone mad!! But nice try saber, see if your persuasive writing can lower the price issued by Juve.
BlueABS
@jerry - cost point is already explained. it works out a lot cheaper than meets the eye. but thank u fr ur constructive feedback. much appreciated .
saber
Good piece by saber.....excellent work. Overall there's little to add or remove,although while I agree with a lot of what saber has said,nevertheless I think some of his points here might count against the view of this article,despite me having always been on the Pogba bandwagon. First of all,I think more youths have to be integrated more because of the leaving of Lampard,Cole,maybe Bertrand,Moses and the impending departure of Terry.That's partly why I prefer Pogba's capture,but that would mean we also have to create another space for another homegrown player,otherwise it would prevent us from having a full squad.To be honest if Tiago is indeed coming and Pogba too,then Ram and Mikel have to leave to create more space for homegrown players.PVA or Ake may be kept as support LB,and one more pivot player have to be integrated to create a blooding process for the young player at least before Tiago finally leaves.Chalobah fits the bill,although I understand he didn't have a stellar season on loan last time.
Samy-chim
Amortisation is a valid point, only if the player reaches the potential to the initial purchase price.
BlueABS
Alternatively and more importantly, the 'asking' price.
BlueABS
blueABS and the others. please dont look at the price as a single figure. FFP ammortises it. so over a period of 10-12 yrs its still a bargain
saber
Also please note,Lewis Baker--I've watched him extensively-- is a complete CM sort of player,plays with both feet too,the closest thing we have to Kroos.Swift dwells in the Lampard mold,and RLC is originally a DM who can play better in the CM just like Yaya,though I agree,while is very talented,is not ready for the first team.Maybe in two-three seasons time.So saying these guys aren't pivot players is an ammunition against the article
Samy-chim
samy chin since pogba is homegrown we neednt sell anyone to make space fr him
saber
Dr Wombat: "FFS READ AND UNDERSTAND BEFORE RUNNING YOUR MOUTH OF" Really? Distinct lack of class conspicuously displayed! No wonder barbie fought you furiously yesterday! So you still haven't changed? How sad! That said, maybe you should be the one to FFS READ AND UNDERSTAND BEFORE RUNNING YOUR MOUTH OF, because I wasn't talking no opinionated "goal threat" insinuation of yours - as every footballer is potentially a goal threat, whether goalkeeper or outfield player! Rather, and this is for those who can read and understand, and might want to re-read my relevant comment on this issue, it is dead easy to see I was talking Kroos' dead ball prowess over Pogba's. Get a grip already. VC legend my ass!
McQuinnChels
Has anyone actually read or heard anything from anyone connected with Chelsea saying they are interested in getting Pogba. The only thing I've seen is a picture of Pogba playing a game on his iPad where he was the manager of Chelsea and he signed himself up and a load of paper talk. It seems Chelsea's policy of spending millions and millions on a player is over unless they are in need of a certain player like Costa because of striker force was laughable and Fabregas because he brought something different to the team. I can't see Chelsea spending that kind of money on a player anymore especially with the amount of misfield players we have. Amazing article by the way I enjoyed reading it.
Jim Moriarty
Yes, I get that saber, but if he doesn't reach his potential, and sells at the same price or loss, then the amortisation doesn't work does it? You pay that sort of money for proven strikers, or exceptional attacking mids / wingers. Or has the whole market risen a big notch in stupid asking prices. The big question is Pogba already the worlds best midfielder, or only the potential to be it. In which case, 60m is a big gamble. Of course, you can turn it around the other way, a proven striker comes along and does absolutely nothing (or close as), the 'bought' disaster is only offset by peripheral earnings and marketing, which can go a long way to in the first couple of years in the amortisation plan. As you know, we have had to suffer a couple of those, pre FFP.
BlueABS
and lad, your amortization claim is either flawed or you simply don't understand how it works! Listen, if you pay 60million euros or the sterling on, say, a 100k pw (5million a year) 5-year deal and the player in question sustains a fatal injury or doesn't live up to the billing and the initial hype, wtf do you do? Does your flawed amortization claim give you back your 85million "invested"? Go figure! LOL
McQuinnChels
i agree blueABS and i would be much more wary of buying someone on low transfer fee and high wages . in the case of torres and expensive duds its d wages that make them immovable. also in the case of any young player ther is a risk matched by equal reward. however their resale value means our fingers will not be burnt like in the case of the torres or schevchenko saga
saber
@McQ,you've said this issue of Pogba's ideal partner,and you mentioned Matuidi and Vidal before and I countered it.I wonder why you think Matic can't do for Pogba what Vidal and Matuidi does for him at France and Juve.If you say he does better with an ideal partner would you not also say the same about Kroos.Germany vs France seems to be the best answer.Though Germany won,did you see how threatened they were especially in the midfield.France overan their midfield by a mile or two,why? did I hear you say Matuidi and Cabaye. Kroos passes more but is better as an AMand we've got Fabregas to do that already.If you watched it well enough I think you'ld agree that aside from Valbuena,Pogba was the better player for France.He made things happened.The Matuid you talked about ran and ran and ran but he made more costly mistakes compared to Pogba.Pogba is like hybrid DLP-Box2Box-Regista CM.He can give through balls,over the top balls,split passes,tackles,runs,dribbles,shots.He has drive,pace,skill,solidty,unbelievable stamina for his height.What else do you want mate?If you ask me that's a more complete package compared to Kroos
Samy-chim
I seriously can't see Oscar lasting in a Chelsea shirt beyond this summer if we sign Pogba and Kroos in addition to Fabregas that is signed already.
KAKUfrank
A player comes at 60m, doesn't reach his potential and can only be re-sold at 25m. I would call that fingers burnt. In Sheva and Torres case, we have been completely and utterly roasted, burnt to a cinder, I only referred to them because they came as 'older' 'proven' players, with huge reputations, that helps to allay their initial cost, but you still expect a return in keeping up that performance level. That and shirt sales, etc. Fail and you are stuck with high wages on a long contract. But that equally applies to an unproven youngster, do you believe that Pogba would not want a high salary, on the back of his perceived worth at 60m? That leaves no 'wriggle room' should he not also reach his potential, and an equal disaster ensues. It's too big a gamble. A proven player on high wages but low purchase price, is a much better amortisation prospect, but you only see those players in the last year of contracts. And you shouldn't offer them or expect a 5 year contract, the high wages should compensate for age and performance in the contract offered, without being straddled long term if it all goes belly up.
BlueABS
Why bother posting comments and thoughts on this author's articles? He can't digest opinions that are different than his. The way he took out my posts which were clean, insult free and non abusive last night was ridiculous. All of your "Yes Men" keep heaping praises on this author and fan his ego. Hey Saber, you can also Delete this post of mine. So much for freedom of expression and journalistic ethics. If my posts contained insults and derogatory terms then I admit that you have the write to Censor me and take out my posts. Why bother posting articles on VC if you can't digest thoughts that are different from yours. Just because you became a VC member before some of us doesn't mean that your Footballing Mind and Knowledge is Superior to other members who joined this site. Keep feeding your "Yes Men"
StamfordDLion
wide of the mark Stamford, HQ and I are the only ones who can delete posts and if you persist in name-calling (along with several others I have my eye on), then the process will continue. If you don't like it then...................tough!
merlin
Now that's no "personal attack" Samy but your very welcomed opinion which you're entitled to. Hope you'll let me keep mine?! Ahem, have you seen Pogba take a free kick or corner kick before? Would you not love to have arguably the world's best in-form dead ball taker @Chelsea, finally? Trust me it isn't just my opinion that Matuidi, Cabaye and Vidal are better MFs than Pogba, and if you agree Matuidi, Cabaye and Vidal "does" something for Pogba (and Matic potentially too) as you've quite surprisingly agreed, a fact which is rather confusing to me and parallel to your overall argument - in other words, you've agreed the pricey Pogba is a partner-dependent midfield rookie - why in the world then would you not rather get a more accomplished, experienced, classier, more technical and attack-minded "partner-dependent" campaigner in Kroos? I'm confused :(
McQuinnChels
@blueABS - at work . i ll get back to u on that. @stamfordDlion- for the love of GOD let d lukaku obsession go! please dont hijack this thread
saber
This time last year, many people including myself, felt that we should try and sign Fellaini from Everton as a holding midfield player. In the end he went to ManU for over 30m and it has turned out to be a disaster for both the club and player. Pogba at 50m or Kroos at 20m would both be good signings, but maybe we should take a punt on Fellaini for 10m and see the response from Old Trafford. The player has not become a bad player overnight, things just havn`t come together for him, very much like our own Fernando Torres. But Fellaini is a very strong player, which is what Jose likes, he could play alongside Matic in the holding role and is also a goal threat at set pieces. For 10m it would be a steal, especially if ManU are desperate to offload him, as is being reported.
Blueheart9
@saber Pogba is homegrown I know,but that's just one space filled.We need 2-3 more homegrown spaces, aside from Terry, filled to complete the required minimum of four. We also forget that Fabregas is a good setpiece taker. I don't think Pogba can't take free kicks better than say Oscar or Schurrle if he works at it either
Samy-chim
Thanks for that response merlin, and pls do not hesitate to delete any post calling me Mq, HGH Magic, Josh_Mou, or The Josh instead of talking the football this lovely site and its articles are is meant for.
McQuinnChels
ahem..............pot, kettle, black are three words that spring to mid!
merlin
Merlin: My posts that were deleted last night from the article on Lukaku written by Saber were free of 1) Insults 2) Name Calling 3) Derogatory Terms 4) Abusive Language. I don't understand why those posts of mine were deleted? After Saber used the term "Butt-Hurt" in a post directed to me, I posted a post in his direction saying that as an Esteemed VC contributor, he should not be using derogatory terms towards another VC member Especially when that VC member (me) hasn't used any insults, derogatory terms, abusive language and silly names while engaging in a debate with him. You can check the Lukaku thread for yourself. My exchanges with Saber has been Completely Civil and free of abusive language, name calling and derogatory terms. The only name calling that I have engaged in is calling McQ as HGH. I haven't cursed him or used derogatory terms towards McQ. I am puzzled because Saber was the one who used derogatory terms and not me. You can read the thread yourself. I am surprised because the posts where I have referred to McQ as HGH is still on the thread where as the posts where I called our Saber to be Civil and not use derogatory terms like "Butt-Hurt" have been deleted. I know Saber joined VC before me and probably shares a special rapport with the VC headquarters people but I firmly believe that VC should be FAIR. Reprimand me and take actions against me if I have used derogatory terms, name calling and insults. Saber used "Butt-Hurt" on me while my Response to him was Clean, Logical and Civil. Thats all. Cheers.
StamfordDLion
If you have kept me under your radar because I have referred to McQ as HGH then alright. I will stop calling him HGH. Maybe you should see who provokes and instigates the whole fiasco first.
StamfordDLion
why oh why can't we all just talk footy instead of aiming barbs at each other? That's all I ask!
merlin
Knock Knock Samy-chim, you still there?
McQuinnChels
excellent article Saber..... but I think I have to disagree with you on Tiago going to get paid few salaries.......... I believe he's coming in for a pay-rise...... this one is different to the Eto'o transfer.............. and I always said that 45m pounds would not be bad to pay for Pogba...... but now I see these calculations, it looks like he's totally worth 50m pounds......... the market has gone crazy...
The Persian
vitalchelsea is slowly becoming Gossipgirl thread...except football everything is discussed here...
shlok27
Sauber, you skills of persuassion are fantastic, but never the less, I won't wnt us 2 pay more than 40m for him with more money added based on developments/perfomances
Bunmiemich
Just like Lukaku, Pogba is all potential. Nothing more. He has just 1 solitary senior international goal to his name. Even Mikel has more for Nigeria, and Jordan Henderson and PSG's Verratti are more mobile than him, imo. He has just 2 years on his existing Juve contract; he shouldn't be worth more than £20m, ideally. From what I've seen of his game these past 2 years, he's all hype and has nothing on Toni Kroos. Sir Alex is/was nobody's fool...
McQuinnChels
Oh my! *smh*
McQuinnChels
CFC have confirmed loaning Thorgan Hazard to Borussia Monchengladbach......... EXCELLENT MOVE ........ this is the same club that bought and nurtured Marco Reus, and then sold him back to BVB...... I have high hopes for Thorgan.. best wishes lad
The Persian
Unfortunately I don’t have the time to spend 24 hours a day, 7 days a week playing admin to the comments posted, thankfully, the law changed a while back making it the posters responsibility rather than the site editors with regards to what is written. I don’t take sides, I couldn’t give a toss if members have several identities, I hoped you’d all be mature enough to behave sensibly but perhaps I was so, so wrong!
merlin
I seriously wonder how some of you get by in life. A little bit of name calling and you all come running to me. Grow a frigging back-bone all of you! I'm sat here looking out of my window, there's blue and white striped Police crime scene tape across the road, a whole raft of police cars and CID officers doing door to door enquiries. Something very bad went on across the road last night, blood curdling screams woke me at 05:00 this morning and all some of you can do is come running cos some of you are a touch sensitive. Whatever happened to the skip through what you're reading if you don't like it. If you are deeply troubled then use the REPORT ABUSE button and HQ will sort it. meanwhile my thoughts are what went on across the road last night it was certainly more than a touch of name-calling!
merlin
Go to hell lad! I have one account and one account alone! The HQ and merlin know my IP address. But hey, who the feck are you that I should even bother responding. My word! Dude YOU ARE NOBODY, thus duly ignored!
McQuinnChels
"I seriously wonder how some of you get by in life. A little bit of name calling and you all come running to me. Grow a frigging back-bone all of you!" Said it all, big brother merlin. THANK YOU SIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
McQuinnChels
interesti piece
smog
Hi merlin, it's getting messier and messier now, innit? Don't you think it's time to act?
The Josh
FFS @BlueEagle, Why keep bringing my name up in your petty childish quarrels? Of course I'm Josh_Mou on my co-editor profile but how can you seriously claim I am someone else? Where? Why not face @McQuinnChels, HGH Magic or whoever you have issues with and leave me out? Besides, can you show us any of you posts here discussing the subject of the article? Can you tell why you shouldn't be banned immediately for unnecessarily bringing this site into disrepute? Be warned!
The Josh
Another fine piece Saber. Keep them coming.
syed230183_chelseafc
Merlin one last one to delete, you yourself are just a joke as an administrator who picks his favourite, no matter what they do. Scroll up and see the insults from you sidekick McQ. And you leave them undeleted. Still waiting for the ban.
BlueEagle
The boss is busy atm as he indicated above. Pls rise above these petty childish indiscretions and post something, anything, pertaining to Chelsea if you can't debate this article; if you want your comments to stick. Thanks
The Josh
For €60m or £60 its not even a risk anymore....it becomes a foolish move. I notice that the rationale given is that Pogba will develop into the best midfielder in the world....not the best player. And thats where I tend to question the rationale for spending that much. Firstly a few years ago...the world was looking at Pastore, Nuri Sahin, Ganso, Pato, Affellay as the guaranteed stars of the future. Just 3 years later and where are those players. Lets just say we had invested £40-45m on Pato or Pastore as expected....we would have been stuck with most here blaming this or that coach and asking for them to be fired for wasting 'good talent'. My next point is that for every so called 'talent', there are usually 2-3 others out there like them. Not only that but you are assured of a certain player putting in similar numbers/output. CR7 was good at United, but there is always an RVP, Berbatov who can match those numbers easily. Barca maximize by recycling strikers every 2 or so years. Eto gives you 2-4 years, Henry gives you 2 solid years and so does Zlatan and Villa. Now Suarez will give them 2 solid years. We have been stuck with Torres wishing he changes. Most important point is that just because Messi and CR7 are the best did not mean Bayern and Atletico always lost to them. In fact Atletico were better last season even after losing Falcao and had Bayern not changed coaches it can be argued Real would be second best. Thats 2 teams without the best players in the world getting the better of the ones with the best. Now another point is that whereas there was Pirlo as the best, there was also Scholes, Xavi, Alonso, Essien, Baastian, Gerrard and now Yaya, Modric, Koke and co. Just because Pirlo was the best did not mean other teams had trouble executing because they didnt have Pirlo.
OCBlues
You can say another member is this or that, has 10 accounts or what have you, but the nobody here gives a rats', not Site Editor, Merlin nor the HQ. All we want and try to engender is a civil debating of facts, figures and opinions as enunciated in our articles. If you think you can't handle that, then.................you know.
The Josh
at last somebody who has posted something worthwhile, thank you OCBlues
merlin
Excellent post @OCBlues, very well said.
don delsy
I was here!!!!!!!!
nwobi ebuka
Thanks Merlin
OCBlues
Haha...all of us acting like we know more than the board who actually feed their families on their ability to assess players. Mq insulting the author who took time to formulate an argument or opinion article with wishy washy logic at best...typical Mqhele Mcquinn chels or whatever...nice article sabre
Gian-Franco/Luca
I am all for civil debate, but when others here just try to diss an article that another member write is childish and that trend can be seen from a typical member. My 2 cent
BlueEagle
Great points OCBlues, I couldn't agree more! And thanks for reminding me of the 'lost talent' of Ganso...at least I still rmembered Pato and the rest. Also, where on the planet is Leandro Damiao? Remember him?
The Josh
Leandro is fishing somewhere in Brazil. As I have maintained, no central midfielder in the world is worth even £40mm. The most to pay for any midfielder is £30mm. Right around what we have paid for Fabregas. At that point, you've de risked the purchase. Just like strikers, in 2 years, they will be another set of Pogba, Yaya, Vidal and Modric. Chelsea just has to pounce early when that time comes. With the price Juve is calling and if Pogba doesn't sign a contract extension, Juve will be in massive problems as they will lose significant value not cashing out now. There is absolutely no way Juve can match wages from the PL, La Liga or the French money wasters. It will be ridiculous for real to spend such on Pogba. But who knows, Perez could be looking to B.M.F for the sake of it.
KAKUfrank
OCB - absolutely spot on mate: "For €60m or £60 its not even a risk anymore....it becomes a foolish move." With this alone I could've said we are kindred spirits, but no, I won't say it else they also come a-spouting you are me, and I you, or other! Top comment mate, but how do you manage to call an obviously "foolish move" foolish without running the risk of being hated for "dissing" an article or its author, or acting smart? I want to learn that diplomatic trick, earnestly.
McQuinnChels
impressive Post OCBlues
Haykinz
Just for the record while Saber as usual writes with great persuasive ability, nice prose and clear deductive reasoning i agree more with OC Blues views. I just dont feel expenditure to this degree on the potential promise of Pogba is a wise investment. It was obvious during the France-Germany game that this guy is certainly not all that. I hinsetly would prefer Vidal who is the finished product. Certainly Kross is another viable option and since his price is so much less than Vidals while hsi quality is only marginally less he may well be the best cost effective option for our search for a Regista -CM -CAM hybrid.
GabeU
Kevin De Bruyne looked to me that he had more potential as a player than Pogba, if you looked at all the World Cup games that both of them played. Potential is a double edged sword.
Blueheart9
Pogba looked good until the Germany game. But the thing is Germany are one of the few truly decent teams playing at the World Cup. Most of their players play for Bayern Munich with a sprinkling of Real Madrid, Chelsea etc. Most countries are basically Championship teams with a couple of half decent players and a lot of passion. No wonder a player like Pogba looks good against the smaller countries.
CobhamBlue
We don't need Pogba IMO. All we need is to either promote Van Aanolt or buy a new left back and the team will be as good as complete. We have 3 CFs 6 AFs 3DMs 4 Defenders with and more of every position on loan. We are covered in all aspects of play. Buying Pogba will be surplus to requirements.
traykidd
I pray a certain club would bring €/£60mil and come take lukaku off our books all in the name of he will be one of the best strikers in the future. Heck i will bite that hand off and take the cool cash!! I will be full of smiles just like when psg came for luiz with 50mil :)). All i am saying is 60mil is just aint justifiable, amortisation or not. Get me that boy kroos i have been following him since the U20s. A class of a player that BOY!
kolagold25
@mcquinnchels: saber is only giving his thought on a potential deal for pogba. That does nt mean you should be aggresive like dis. You re also entittled to ur opinion nd you should share it in a constructive way. Its jst football afterall
Demmyblues
Alright mate, noted.
McQuinnChels
One of the main concerns I have for paying this much for Pogba besides the previously mentioned points, is how will our other players take the news. Hazard is our start player - and seeing that we are paying double for Pogba may raise a few eyebrows. Additionally, it will be bad morale for the likes of Ramires (if he stays), Matic, Fabregas, MVG, and especially Oscar. They don't play in the same position, but when you are paying 2-3x other players' worth, it sends the wrong message. And that can be very dangerous for the chemistry of the squad. I sense that there is some discontent already with the departure of good, talented players like Kevin, Mata, and Luiz.
ddrogba
 

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